Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.1.34–39

Prabhupāda: [referring to microphone] It does not stand here. Hmm. There are so many ladies.

Guest (1): And there are so many English devotees.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): English devotees.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. [Hindi] So the constables of Yamarāja, they are describing the bodily features of the Viṣṅudūta. You can have an idea of the Viṣṅuloka, or Vaikuṅṭhaloka. From this study, we have to understand that there is a spiritual sky, and that is far, far extensive than the material sky.

You cannot even measure the sky covered by one universe, and there are innumerable universes. That is... All together, that is one-fourth of the whole sky. It is a rough estimate only, according to the Vedic scripture. And the three-fourths of the sky is spiritual sky.

The population in the spiritual sky is far, far greater than the material sky. Only a few living entities who are rebelled. Just like the population in the prison house is insignificant compared to the whole population of the state, similarly, the living entities who are here in this material world, they are very insignificant.

Including all the universes, all the planets together, they are an insignificant portion of the whole living entities. Ananta. Hy anantāya kalpate [Cc Madhya 19.140].

[If we divide the tip of a hair into a hundred parts and then take one of these parts and divide it again into a hundred parts, that very fine division is the size of but one of the numberless living entities. They are all cit-kaṅa, particles of spirit, not matter.]

The living entities, there is no counting, ananta, unlimited number of living entities. Therefore in the Vedas, the living entities are plural, but God is one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13].

[The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living entities.]

Then,

sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā- śaṅkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ [SB 6.1.34]

[The order carriers of Yamarāja said: Your eyes are just like the petals of lotus flowers. Dressed in yellow silken garments, decorated with garlands of lotuses, and wearing very attractive helmets on your heads and earrings on your ears, you all appear fresh and youthful. Your four long arms are decorated with bows and quivers of arrows and with swords, clubs, conchshells, discs and lotus flowers. Your effulgence has dissipated the darkness of this place with extraordinary illumination. Now, sirs, why are you obstructing us?]

This is another description of the feature. Sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ. In the Vaikuṅṭhaloka, the inhabitants are always young, just like Kṛṣṅa or Viṣṅu is always young. There is no old age. Old age is here in this material world, because this material body becomes old, not the spirit soul. Spirit soul is always fresh. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre.

So they are describing that "You are... You look all just very young." And sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ: "And you are beautifully embodied with four hands." Sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ.

[aside:] What is that?

Dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-śaṅkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ: "And exactly like Viṣṅu, you have got dhanur, bows; and śaṅkha, conchshell; cakra, disc; gadā, club; and ambuja, padma, lotus flower. Everyone." That means everyone in the Vaikuṅṭhaloka, they are exactly like the bodily feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṅa.

This is called sārūpya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberation. This liberation, to have the same bodily feature like Nārāyaṅa, is called sārūpya, "the form exactly like Viṣṅu." Sārūpya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberations: sāyujya, sālokya, sārūpya, sārṣṭi, sāmīpya [Cc Madhya 6.266].

[There are five kinds of liberation: sālokya, sāmīpya, sārūpya, sārṣṭi and sāyujya.]

So these Māyāvādī philosophers, they prefer sāyujya, to merge into the existence of impersonal existence.

A living entity can live, can remain in the Brahman effulgence as a particle of shining. Just like there are many molecular particles in the sunshine, similarly, the living entities also can cluster together and live as a small particle of spiritual shining, and that is called brahma-sāyujya-mukti [Cc Madhya 6.264–265].

[The Bhaṭṭācārya continued, “The impersonalists, who do not accept the transcendental form of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa, and the demons, who are always engaged in blaspheming and fighting with Him, are punished by being merged into the Brahman effulgence. But that does not happen to the person engaged in the devotional service of the Lord.]

But that kind of existence is subjected to falldown again.

ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ āruhya kṛcchreṅa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho... [SB 10.2.32]

[[Someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet.]

Because the living entities, they want varieties of enjoyment, but in that impersonal existence there is no varieties of enjoyment, therefore, when they desire varieties of enjoyment, they have come to this material world. So even they merge into the effulgence of brahma-jyoti, there is cause, there is chance of falling. Not all. Some of them may go to the planets, but there is chance.

sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā- śaṅkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ

diśo vitimirālokāḥ kurvantaḥ svena tejasā kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha [SB 6.1.35-36]

"You are so brilliant that immediately on your appearance the darkness is dissipated. Immediately." They are so much, I mean to say, glowing, their body, in Vaikuṅṭha. Therefore in the Upaniṣad it is said that in the Vaikuṅṭhaloka, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sun, moon.

The planets and the bodily effulgence of the inhabitants, they are all glowing. So on account of everything glowing in the spiritual world, there is no necessity of sunshine or moonshine or electricity. They are self-effulgent.

diśo vitimirālokāḥ kurvantaḥ svena tejasā kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha [SB 6.1.36]

"You are so brilliant, you appear to be very," I mean to say, "enlightened and coming from some planets." Because they had no exactly idea what kind of planet they live. They are simply suggesting that "You must be coming from some very exalted planet. But why you are interfering with our business?"

Kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya. Dharma-pāla. Yamarāja's another name is Dharmarāja or Dharmapāla. He is one of the authorities. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the śāstras. Brahmā is one authority, Lord Śiva is one authority and Nārada is one authority. Then Manu is one authority, Prahlāda Mahārāja is authority, Bali Mahārāja is authority, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is authority. So similarly, Yamarāja is also authority. They are authorities who know exactly what is God, or Kṛṣṅa, and they can direct.

Therefore śāstra says you have to follow the authorities. Otherwise it is not possible. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc Madhya 17.186].

[Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu continued, “’Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not differ from others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated, one cannot come to the right path by which religious principles are understood. The solid truth of religious principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated, self-realized person. Consequently, as the śāstras confirm, one should accept whatever progressive path the mahājanas advocate.’]

You cannot understand the path of religion by your mental speculation. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṅītam [SB 6.3.19].

[Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great ṛṣis who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary human beings, Vidyādharas and Cāraṅas.]

Dharma, religious principles, are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No ordinary man can enact dharma.

Therefore there is dharma-viparya. Real dharma, actual dharma, is to abide by the words of the Supreme Lord. That is dharma. Just like Kṛṣṅa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṅaṁ [Bg 18.66].

[Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.]

That is dharma, simply to surrender unto Kṛṣṅa. Otherwise it is not dharma. Man-made dharma is no dharma. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. You cannot manufacture religion. But nowadays it has become fashion. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. Therefore there is dharma-viparya.

So one should know that dharma means the laws given by God. That is dharma. And such dharma, or the path of dharma, is strictly followed by these mahājanas. Just like Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Nārada, Manu, Kapila..., Kapiladeva, Kapiladeva who enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy... Svayaṁbhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kapilo manuḥ, prahlādo bhīṣmaḥ [SB 6.3.20].

[Lord Brahmā, Bhagavān Nārada, Lord Śiva, the four Kumāras, Lord Kapila [the son of Devahūti], Svāyambhuva Manu, Prahlāda Mahārāja, Janaka Mahārāja, Grandfather Bhīṣma, Bali Mahārāja, Śukadeva Gosvāmī and I myself know the real religious principle. My dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as bhāgavata-dharma, or surrender unto the Supreme Lord and love for Him, is uncontaminated by the material modes of nature. It is very confidential and difficult for ordinary human beings to understand, but if by chance one fortunately understands it, he is immediately liberated, and thus he returns home, back to Godhead.]

Bhīṣmadeva is also authority. You know Bhīṣmadeva, the grandfather of the Pāṅḍavas. He is also authority. Prahlāda, Bhīṣma... Bali Mahārāja is also authority.

So we have to follow these authorities. Otherwise there is no possibility of understanding what is religion, what is God. This... Our this sampradāya, Madhva-Gauḍīya sampradāya, they are following the authorities of Lord Brahmā and Nārada. Similarly, there is another sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. Rudra-sampradāya. And there is another sampradāya, coming from Lakṣmījī, Śrī-sampradāya, Rāmānuja.

So we have to accept religious principles from the leaders of the sampradāya. Otherwise it is useless. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te viphalā matāḥ [Padma Purāṅa]: "If you do not accept mantra initiation from the disciplic succession of the sampradāya, then it will be useless." Sampradāya-vihīnā ye. So people are manufacturing religion without any reference to these authorities.

So diśo vitimirālokāḥ kurvantaḥ svena tejasā. Svena: "By your own effulgence you are dissipating the darkness, all directions. You are so bright, brilliant." Kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya: "Oh, we can understand that you are not ordinary living entities. You are coming from some exalted planet. But what business you have got to interfere with our business?" Dharma-pālasya.

śrī-śuka uvāca ity ukte yamadūtais te vāsudevokta-kāriṅaḥ tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ megha-nirhrādayā girā [SB 6.1.37]

[Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: Being thus addressed by the messengers of Yamarāja, the servants of Vāsudeva smiled and spoke the following words in voices as deep as the sound of rumbling clouds.]

When they were addressed by the assistants of Yamarāja, then the representative of Vāsudeva, vāsudevokta-kāriṅaḥ, those who are followers of the order of Vāsudeva... Representative...

[aside:] Again you have to stand, please.

Tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ megha-nirhrādayā girā. Now, the Viṣṅudūta, they began to speak in a very grave language, just like resounding the cloud. [reads Śrīdhāra Swami commentary:] Kim anya-lokasyānyasya prakāśa yat tu tathā bhūta diśaḥ kurvantaḥ bhavatam anuṣitaṁ yam ity āhuḥ kim artham ity āha.

Indirectly, the Yamadūtas said that "You are so exalted, so it is not very good for you to interfere with our business." They politely submitted. And... [commentary:] Ato daṅḍyādaṅḍya-jñāna-śūnyā iti śaura evākṣnod dhiyā dharma-rājasya kiṅkarā ity anvitaṁ vadanti viṣayena prahasya tān pratyūcuḥ.

Now, Śrīdhāra Swami is commenting why they were smiling, these Viṣṅudūta, because the Yamadūtas were criticizing, "Why you are interfering?" The Yamadūtas did not know that whatever action is taken by the representative of Viṣṅu, they are not, I mean to say, unnecessarily interference; they are actual fact.

Therefore they are smiling, that "These Yamadūtas, without knowing our position, they are trying to criticize us." So they were smiling. Prahasya, prahasya. Just like if a child speaks something to a learned man, he smiles. So Viṣṅudūta were smiling, hearing the Yamadūtas.

Meghasya eva nirhrāda hānir yasya prayātaḥ: "They began to speak in grave," I mean to say, "voice, as if the thundering cloud."

śrī-viṣṅudūta uvāca yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṅaḥ brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṅam [SB 6.1.38]

[The blessed messengers of Lord Viṣṅu, the Viṣṅudūtas, said: If you are actually servants of Yamarāja, you must explain to us the meaning of religious principles and the symptoms of irreligion.]

"You are claiming to be representative of Dharmarāja, Yamarāja." Yamarāja is Dharmarāja. So Viṣṅudūta knows that they are representative. So he challenged..., the Viṣṅudūtas challenged the Yamadūtas, that "You are accusing us that we are interfering with your business which is entrusted unto you by the Dharmarāja, the maintainer of dharma. Would you kindly explain what is dharma and what is adharma?" It is very intelligent answer. Yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya: "If you are actually representative."

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that yei kṛṣṅa tattva-vettā sei guru haya [Cc Madhya 8.128]

[Whether one is a brāhmaṅa, a sannyāsī or a śūdra—regardless of what he is—he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Kṛṣṅa.]

"If anyone is representing as guru, he must know Kṛṣṅa." He must know. Kṛṣṅa cannot be known, but at least... Just like Kṛṣṅa says, yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg 4.9], that...

[One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.]

One must know Kṛṣṅa in fact, tattvataḥ, in truth. He can become guru. Otherwise, guru is not a..., so cheap post that everyone can become guru. Similarly, here is the challenge, that "If you are representative of Dharmarāja, you must explain what is dharma and what is adharma." That should be the criterion of test. Not that everyone should be accepted as religious, everyone should be accepted as guru.

This ignorance of the population has created so many nonsense as representing as guru and dharma-jñā. No. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21].

[Therefore any person who seriously desires real happiness must seek a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. The qualification of the bona fide guru is that he has realized the conclusions of the scriptures by deliberation and is able to convince others of these conclusions. Such great personalities, who have taken shelter of the Supreme Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations, should be understood to be bona fide spiritual masters.]

The Vedic injunction says, tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, śābde pare ca niṣnātam. One is advised... First of all, who will accept a guru?

Guru is not a plaything, that "I must have a guru, and I will never care to obey his order, but because it is a fashion to keep a guru, I shall keep a guru." That kind of guru is useless, and that kind of disciple is also useless. One must seek after a guru—when? When he is inquisitive to understand the transcendental knowledge. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam.

It is not a fashion. It should be very serious: one who is very much eager to understand transcendental knowledge, śreya uttamam. Jijñāsuḥ śreya. Śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. There are two kinds of paths. Preyaḥ means immediate satisfaction or sense gratification, and preyaḥ means spiritual happiness, er, śreyaḥ. Śreyaḥ means spiritual happiness. Just like children, they are interested with playing—that is preyaḥ—whereas the elderly person, they are interested to give education.

So people... What is the meaning of this preaching? Why we are taking interest in preaching Kṛṣṅa consciousness? Because the people in general, they are interested in preyaḥ for their sense gratification, immediate sense gratification. But that is not good for them. Bhāgavata says, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṅoti [SB 5.5.4]

[When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think it not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another.]

PURPORT "Simply for sense gratification, they are committing so many sinful activities. It is like..., just like madman." A madman does not know what he is doing. Similarly, the materialistic persons, they are so much engrossed and become maddened to commit everything simply for sense gratification. Indriya-prīti.

So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "It is not good. It is very risky life." If we indulge in sense gratification, Kṛṣṅa will give us facilities for sense gratification. Just like a monkey. A monkey has very good facility for sex life. A monkey, every monkey has got at least three dozen wives. Perhaps you know it. So he has been given the facility for sense gratification: "All right." But what is his position? He is a monkey. [laughter] Therefore it is called markaṭa-vairāgya [Cc Madhya 16.238].

[You should not make yourself a showbottle devotee and become a false renunciant. For the time being, enjoy the material world in a befitting way and do not become attached to it.]

Markaṭa-vairāgya means that a monkey is renounced. He does not dress, naked. And he lives in the forest. And he eats also fruit, vegetarian. But the nature is that he must have at least three dozen wives. You see? So the so-called sādhus or so-called vairagis, having illicit sex life very secretly, they are just like monkeys. So Rūpa Gosvāmī has said markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya.

So markaṭa-vairāgya is not necessary. Real vairāgya. We do not indulge in so-called sannyāsī or brahmacārī. If one is unable, he must become a gṛhastha, live like a gṛhastha, and not that "I pose myself as a brahmacārī or a sannyāsī, but I have got illicit sex life secretly." This is markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya is not wanted. Real vairāgya. Real vairāgya means one who can sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṅa. That is vairāgya. Karma-phala-tyāga—that is karma-yoga. One should give up the result of his fruitive activities to Kṛṣṅa. That is karma-yoga.

Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ [Bg 6.1].

[The Blessed Lord said: One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic: not he who lights no fire and performs no work.]

Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. One who is not desirous to enjoy the fruits of his activities, fruitive activities, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, but does it as a matter of duty... "Kṛṣṅa wants it. Kṛṣṅa will be satisfied by doing this." Kāryam: "It must be done." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, for his personal interest, he was not willing to fight. But when he understood that "Kṛṣṅa wants this fighting," then he took it as kāryam: "It must be done. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not, but Kṛṣṅa wants it. Therefore I must do it."

That is called anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī [Bg 6.1].

He is sannyāsī. Na niragnir na cākriyaḥ. Niragnir and akriya. Akriya means they are freed, all kinds of fruitive activities. So they are not sannyāsīs, they are not yogīs, but a yogī is he who gives away the result of his activities to Kṛṣṅa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ.

So he is asking... Viṣṅudūta uvāca, yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṅaḥ. It is a challenge: "So you are claiming that you are representative of Dharmarāja. So we want to know from you what is dharma." Just like yesterday some gentleman came. He said that he has performed yoga, and he has become Nārāyaṅa. Was not? Was not he speaking?

Guest: He has not come in here. He is not here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So naturally... Just like somebody says that "I am God. I have become God by mystic yoga," so one should challenge him, "What kind of God you are? Whenever there is toothache, you go to the doctor immediately. And you are God?" So I have seen. I have seen one man in America. He had some disciples, some.

And he was claiming everyone is God, he is God. And one day he was suffering from toothache. So I asked him, "What kind of God you are, that you are so much painful, suffering from toothache?" And actually, one should challenge these... And they are, practically, another kind of lunatic who claim that "I am God."

So similarly, this challenge is given by the Viṣṅudūtas to the Yamadūtas, that "You are representative of Dharmarāja. Now explain what is dharma and what is adharma." Brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṅam. Tattva, lakṣaṅam: the symptoms of adharma and the truth of dharma.

kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṅḍaḥ kiṁ vāsya sthānam īpsitam daṅḍyāḥ kiṁ kāriṅaḥ sarve āho svit katicin nṛṅām [SB 6.1.39]

[What is the process of punishing others? Who are the actual candidates for punishment? Are all karmīs engaged in fruitive activities punishable, or only some of them?]

"Now explain who is subjected to the punishment of Yamarāja. You have come here to take away this Ajāmila to the court of Yamarāja. But first of all explain who is actually subjected to go to the court of Yamarāja for being punished."

This is the question, and we shall discuss tomorrow about the answer. Hare Kṛṣṅa.

[devotees offer obeisances] [break]

Yamunā: What is adhut? What is the word adhut?

Prabhupāda: Dut? Avadhūta. Paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa stage, the highest stage of perfection. They are not under any rules and regulation, paramahaṁsa.

Yamunā: How does such a person engage?

Prabhupāda: That's a long history. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, sthita-prajñasya. Sthita-prajñā. So there are many symptoms. On the whole, avadhūta or paramahaṁsa is not subjected to any rules and regulation. They are so elevated. That is not to be imitated.

That is a post, position, very exalted, perfectional stage, spiritual advancement. So if you want to know the symptoms, that is in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is a list. But one thing you can simply know, a paramahaṁsa is a stage who is above all rules and regulations. That's all.

Haṁsadūta: [indistinct] disturbed.

Prabhupāda: Another nonsense. That's all.

Revatīnandana: So if he continues to follow these rules and regulations...

Prabhupāda: He doesn't follow. He doesn't follow. I can... I understand from his behavior.

Revatīnandana: But generally they do follow, in the sense that they generally...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramahaṁsa...

Revatīnandana: For setting example for others?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramahaṁsa, they do not come in the society, because the people may imitate and they fall down. Therefore they are aloof. Just like Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja. He was aloof, bhajanānandī. But one who will act as preacher or spiritual master, even if he is paramahaṁsa, he should live ordinarily, so that his disciples may follow. He comes to second stage. Paramahaṁsa is the first stage, and preacher is in the second stage, and neophytes are in the third stage.

So the neophyte should try to come to second stage. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu [SB 11.2.46].

[An intermediate or second-class devotee, called madhyama-adhikārī, offers his love to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is a sincere friend to all the devotees of the Lord, shows mercy to ignorant people who are innocent and disregards those who are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]

They have got discrimination: Īśvara, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; tad-adhīna, the devotees; bāliśa, innocent; and dviṣat, those who are atheists, envious of... As soon as they hear that "Here is something going on, talking about God," they become immediately envious. We have increased the number of this kind of men. They are no more interested in God. They simply challenge. They are called dviṣat. So a preacher should avoid them. But the paramahaṁsa, he does not avoid.

So there are so many things. So we haven't got to imitate the activities or... A paramahaṁsa is a position, exalted position. They are very rare to be visible, because they do not care to come in the society. So..., and if you want to know about the paramahaṁsa, the sthita-prajñā description in the Bhagavad-gītā, I think, in the Twelfth Chapter, you can know it. Hmm?

Mālatī: Prabhupāda? Can you explain more about preyaḥ and śreyaḥ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śreyaḥ means ultimate benefit, and preyaḥ means immediate sense gratification. That is called... That is the difference between śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. [pause] That's all right.

Revatīnandana: So the transcendentalists are śreyaḥ? And the karmīs and others are...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are after preyaḥ. Those who are after śreyaḥ, they should follow the catur-āśrama, varṅāśrama. The varṅāśrama, according to Vedic system, the four kinds of varṅas, or social caste, and four kinds of spiritual order, āśramas, that is the beginning of preyaḥ. Without this acceptance of these principles, according to Vedic principles, one is not considered as a human being or civilized man. Because that is a system, if we follow that system, gradually we rise to the platform of śreyaḥ. If anyone does not follow regulative principles, it is very hard for him to come to the standard of śreyaḥ.

But in this age, in Kali-yuga, every man is so fallen that he cannot follow any regulative principles according to the Vedic system. As such, they have been accepted as śūdras. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ [Skanda Purāṅa]

[In the Age of Kali everyone is born a śūdrā.]

"In this age everyone should be accepted as śūdra." But then how to elevate them? For elevating them, this..., not the Vedic system is to be followed, but pañcarātriki. Pañcarātriki... Just like we are trying to elevate these Europeans and Americans according to pañcarātriki-vidhi. Everyone should be followed. It is not that Indians should not follow, only the others should. No. It is for everyone, pañcarātriki-vidhi.

The pañcarātriki-vidhi means that if anyone has got little tendency for being elevated to the śreyaḥ platform, he should be given chance. That is called pañcarātriki-vidhi. Just like dīkṣā, initiation. Śūdras are not given initiation. A śūdra cannot be initiated. Only the brāhmaṅas can be initiated, or dvija, or the vaiśyas and the kṣatriyas, the higher caste, not the śūdras. But according to pañcarātriki-vidhi, even the śūdras or less than the śūdras, kirāta-hūṅāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā [SB 2.4.18]

[Kirātas, Hūṅas, Āndhras, Pulindas, Pulkaśas, Ābhīras, Śumbhas, Yavanas, members of the Khasa races and even others addicted to sinful acts can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord, due to His being the supreme power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him.]

Everyone can be initiated by a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṅa; not by others. That is the system.

Devotee: Does one become elevated by following the karma-yoga principles only?

Prabhupāda: It will take a long, long time, and failure is possible. In this age, nothing is possible for the fallen people.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā [Cc Ādi 17.21]

[In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.]

This is the injunction. If you want to be elevated to the perfectional stage of life, then you must chant this Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa, Kṛṣṅa Kṛṣṅa, Hare Hare. That will help you. No other method, measures, will help you. You can try for it, but there is every chance of failure. But if you follow this path, as enunciated by the śāstras and elaborated by Lord Caitanya, then there is chance. And actually we are seeing that is being done.

Revatīnandana: In the First Chapter, God Realization booklet, First Chapter, Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the process described there where it says that the gross materialists can begin meditating on the syllable oṁ, and then try to contemplate the universal form. That is not recommended for this age, right?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not for the advanced stage. Those who cannot... Just like the materialistic person, they cannot understand why we are worshiping Deity. They are puzzled. They think, "Why these fools are taking one brass doll and worshiping as God?" They laugh. You see? They cannot understand. They are hard... What is called?

It is impossible for them. Therefore they have been recommended that "You think of God, the universal form." That they like, their meditation, that universal form. They cannot understand or concentrate on this form, kṛṣṅas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28], dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara, Śyāmasundara form.

[All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.]

They cannot.

But by this arca process we are giving chance to everyone. But for the materialistic person it is difficult. They think that they are idol worshiper. But actually, the Vaiṣṅavas, they are not so fools that they will worship an idol. Therefore they have been recommended to concentrate on the universal form.

Revatīnandana: We always encourage the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṅa. Is that so? [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only method in this age. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa, one's... The reservoir of understanding will be cleared. And then you can receive..., he can receive the spiritual knowledge. Without cleansing the heart it is very difficult to understand and receive spiritual knowledge. All these reformatory measures—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—they are simply the cleansing method.

And bhakti is also cleansing method, vidhi-bhakti. But by engaging oneself in this Deity worship, he also becomes cleansed. Tat-paratve... Sarvopādhi... As he becomes enlightened, or advanced in understanding that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṅa, he becomes purified. He becomes purified. Sarvopādhi means he doesn't... Sarvopādhi. He tries to eliminate his upādhi, his designation, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that."

So in this way, when you become fully eliminated of this bodily concept of life, then nirmalam. He becomes nirmala, uncontaminated. And so long this concept of life is going on, that "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," he's still in the... Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ [SB 11.2.47].

[A devotee who faithfully engages in the worship of the Deity in the temple but does not behave properly toward other devotees or people in general is called a prākṛta-bhakta, a materialistic devotee, and is considered to be in the lowest position.]

[aside:] Sit down properly, not like that.

Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Arcāyām eva haraye...

Even in this process, when they are engaged in Deity worship, arcāyāṁ haraye yat-pūjāṁ śraddhāyehate, with great devotion doing, but na tad bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, but he has no sympathy with others or he does not know what is the position of a devotee, then sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ: "He is called material devotee." Material devotee.

So we have to elevate ourselves from material devotional stage to the second platform, when one can understand what is a devotee, what is a nondevotee, what is God, what is atheist. These discriminations are there. And in paramahaṁsa stage there is no such discrimination.

He sees everyone is engaged in service of the Lord. He does not envy anyone, he does not see anything, anybody. But that is another stage. We should not imitate, try to imitate, but we may know that paramahaṁsa is the highest stage of perfection. [pause]

Just like as a preacher we have to point out... Just like I told this boy, "You sit down like this." But a paramahaṁsa will not say. A paramahaṁsa, he sees, rather: "He is all right." He sees. But we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. Because we are preacher, we are teacher, we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. We must tell the right source, right course.

Revatīnandana: You must be higher than the paramahaṁsa stage, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I am lower than you. I am lower than you.

Revatīnandana: You are so beautiful. You are paramahaṁsa, but still, you are preaching to us.

Prabhupāda: No, I am lower than you. I am the lowest of the all creatures. I am simply trying to execute the order of my spiritual master. That's all. That should be the business of everyone. Try best. Try your best to execute the higher order. That is the safest way of progressing.

One may be in the lowest stage, but if he tries to execute this duty entrusted upon him, he is perfect. He may be in lowest stage, but because he is trying to execute the duty entrusted to him, then he is perfect. That is the consideration. [end]

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.1.34–39

Referenced verses