Śrīmad-Bhāgavatām 6.2.9–10

Haṁsadūta: [introducing recording] Sixteen heads arrived at the Kumbha-melā, January 5th, 1971. Śrīla Prabhupāda arrived on the morning of January 13th, 1971, and the following lectures were recorded beginning January 15th, 1971, at the Kumbha-melā, crossing of Kali and Yamunā roads, just across from the Hanumān Mandira, a temple which is said to be at least one million years old. Prabhupāda said it was standing since the time of Lord Rāmacandra. [break]

Prabhupāda:

om ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave-namaḥ

[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]

śrī-caitanya-mano-'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ dadāti sva-padāntikam

[When will Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?"]

vande 'haṁ śrī-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṅavāṁś ca śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṅa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ kṛṣṅa-caitanya-devaṁ śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṅa-pādān saha-gaṅa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca

[I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master and of all the other preceptors on the path of devotional service. I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṅavas and unto the six Gosvāmīs, including Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, Jīva Gosvāmī and their associates. I offer my respectful obeisances unto Śrī Advaita Ācārya Prabhu, Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and all His devotees, headed by Śrīvāsa Ṭhākura. I then offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of Lord Kṛṣṅa, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṅī and all the gopīs, headed by Lalitā and Viśākhā.]

he kṛṣṅa karuṅā-sindho dīna-bandho jagat-pate gopeśa gopikā-kānta rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te

[O my dear Kṛṣṅa, ocean of mercy, You are the friend of the distressed and the source of creation. You are the master of the cowherd men and the lover of the gopīs, especially Rādhārāṅī. I offer my respectful obeisances unto You.]

tapta-kāñcana-gaurāṅgi rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari vṛṣabhānu-sute devi praṅamāmi hari-priye

[I offer my respects to Rādhārāṅī, whose bodily complexion is like molten gold and who is the Queen of Vṛndāvana. You are the daughter of King Vṛṣabhānu, and You are very dear to Lord Kṛṣṅa.]

śrī-kṛṣṅa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda

[I offer my obeisances to Śrī Kṛṣṅa Caitanya, Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita, Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa and all others in the line of devotion.]

hare kṛṣṅa hare kṛṣṅa kṛṣṅa kṛṣṅa hare hare hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

[My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.]

We have been discussing Ajāmila's upākhyāna after finishing the speeches by the Yamadūta, assistants of Yamarāja, the superintendent of judgment after death. Yamarāja is one of the appointed officers, mahājanas. He's a Vaiṣṅava, but his thankless task is that he has to punish all the sinful activities. That is his position. Just like superintendent of police, he is also a government officer, responsible officer, faithful servant of the government, but his task is simply to chastise the sinful persons. So if such person is required in ordinary government, why not a similar personality in the government of the Supreme Person?

Because from the Vedānta-sūtra we understand that everything that we experience within this world, they are emanation from the Absolute Truth. So this intelligence, that one person should be in charge of the criminal department, has come from the Absolute Truth. Otherwise there was no possibility. It is not an human invention. We should always understand, whatever we experience within this world, that is emanation from the Absolute Truth. As Kṛṣṅa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg 10.8]:

[I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.]

"I am the original source of everything that you experience."

So the assistants of Yamarāja charged that "This man was throughout his whole life a sinful man. Therefore he is punishable and we must take him to the Yamarāja." And the Viṣṅudūtas protested that "Even though he was sinful throughout his whole life, because he once uttered the holy name of Nārāyaṅa, some way or other—it doesn't matter—therefore he is now free from all reaction of sinful life." And he has spoken that there are different kinds of sinful life, and he has described some of them. Stenaḥ. Stenaḥ means stealing, thieves, burglars. They are very sinful. Stenaḥ. Surā-paḥ, drunkard, intoxicant, those who are addicted to intoxication.

So stealing and drinking, these are the honorable occupations of the moralist. But they are condemned by the Yamarāja..., by the Viṣṅu... Stenaḥ surā-po mitra-dhruk [SB 6.2.9].

[The chanting of the holy name of Lord Viṣṅu is the best process of atonement for a thief of gold or other valuables, for a drunkard, for one who betrays a friend or relative, for one who kills a brāhmaṅa, or for one who indulges in sex with the wife of his guru or another superior. It is also the best method of atonement for one who murders women, the king or his father, for one who slaughters cows, and for all other sinful men. Simply by chanting the holy name of Lord Viṣṅu, such sinful persons may attract the attention of the Supreme Lord, who therefore considers, "Because this man has chanted My holy name, My duty is to give him protection.]

One who is unfaithful to his friends, mitra-dhruk; brahma-hā, one who has killed a brāhmaṅa or a Vaiṣṅava, brahma-hā. And guru-talpa-gaḥ: and one who has dishonored a spiritual master or teacher. Strī-rāja-pitṛ-go-hantā, one who has killed a woman, one who has killed a king and one who has killed a cow. These are all the severest type of sinful activities. Ye ca pātakino 'pare. Some of the sinful activities are mentioned here. And besides these sinful activities, there are other, many.

So the Viṣṅudūta says that "Even though one has committed so many sinful activities, if at the..., if once he utters the holy name of Nārāyaṅa, he becomes free, immediately." That's a fact. It is not exaggeration. A sinful man, somehow or other if he chants this Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra, he immediately becomes free from all reaction. But the difficulty is that he commits again. That is nāmāparādha, offense.

There are ten kinds of offenses. This is the severest offense, that after being freed from all sinful reaction by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra, if he again commits the same sin, that is a grievous criminal action. For ordinary man it may not be so severe, but one who is chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra, if he takes advantage of this mantra, that "Because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra, even though I commit some sin, I'll be free," he'll be freed, but because he is offender he will not achieve the ultimate goal of chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra.

Because he'll be freed, and again he'll commit—freed, again he'll commit. In this way there will be no chance of his liberation. But don't think that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra one's sinful reactions are [not] counteracted. That is not exaggeration. That's a fact. The difficulty is that one chants Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra, again commits sin, that is greatest sin. That is the greatest offense.

Sarveṣām apy aghavatām idam eva suniṣkṛtam. Suniṣkṛtam. Nāma-vyāharaṅaṁ viṣṅor yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ. Now the Viṣṅudūta says, sarveṣām apy aghavatām. Aghavatām means those who are sinful. Agha means sin, and vatām means who are possessors of sinful life. Sarveṣām, "Of all kinds of sinful persons," sarveṣām apy aghavatām idam eva suniṣkṛtam, "this is the only process by which he can become immediately freed from the reaction." Idam eva suniṣkṛtam. What is that? Nāma-vyāharaṅam: "Simply chanting this mantra," vyāharaṅa. Nāma-vyāharaṅaṁ viṣṅoḥ. Not that any other name.

The foolish persons, they say that "You chant any name, any name," sometimes demigods' names, sometimes his beloved's name. They think that any name, chanting... Because the Māyāvādīs, they think that everyone is God—"Even the demigods, they are God. I am God. You are God"—therefore they say that any name you chant and you will be freed. But that's not a fact. Here it is said clearly, vyāharaṅaṁ nāma viṣṅoḥ: "only the Supreme Personality of Godhead Viṣṅu's name," viṣṅu-sahasra name. There are list of one thousand names of Viṣṅu.

So Kṛṣṅa and Viṣṅu, the same, and it is stated in the śāstras that by chanting one thousand holy names of Viṣṅu you can get the result of chanting..., once chanting the name of Rāma. If you, say, only chant Rāma, by this chanting, you immediately get the result of chanting thousand times Viṣṅu's name. And by chanting three times Lord Rāma's name you get the result of chanting once Kṛṣṅa's name. Therefore by chanting Kṛṣṅa's name you get all the good results.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore recommends this. He recommends; not that He has manufactured. He recommends the śāstric injunction: harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc Ādi 17.21].

[In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.]

So the harer nāma or viṣṅu-nāma or devotional service to Viṣṅu... Śravaṅaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṅoḥ [SB 7.5.23].

[Prahlāda Mahārāja said: Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Viṣṅu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words)—these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Kṛṣṅa through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge.]

You should always remember this, because sometimes rascals mislead that "Any name."

In Bengal it is very popular. There is a party, they chant kālī-kīrtana, "Kālī, Kālī, Kālī," imitation. Or there are so many so-called avatāras. There was another rascal, he added his wife's name. [laughter] Yes. And the rascal, [chuckles] foolish scholars also accepted.

Yes. "Haro kusuma, haro kusuma, kusuma kusuma, haro...," like that. The rascal's name was Haro, and his wife's name was Kusuma, so he made a mantra, haro kusuma, haro kusuma, kusuma kusuma, haro haro. [laughter] And the rascal followers also accepted that this is...

So this is going on. A Māyāvādī philosophers, they are so dangerous that they mislead their follower to the hell. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore strongly warned, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa [Cc Madhya 6.169]:

[Śrīla Vyāsadeva presented the Vedānta philosophy for the deliverance of conditioned souls, but if one hears the commentary of Śaṅkarācārya, everything is spoiled.]

"If you attempt to hear some Māyāvādī philosopher, then your life will be spoiled. Your path to devotional service will be blocked. So don't try to hear a Māyāvādī." This is the recommendation by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So we should always remember, when there is question of chanting the holy name, that means Viṣṅu, not any other's name. Vyāharaṅaṁ viṣṅor yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ [SB 6.2.10].

[The chanting of the holy name of Lord Viṣṅu is the best process of atonement for a thief of gold or other valuables, for a drunkard, for one who betrays a friend or relative, for one who kills a brāhmaṅa, or for one who indulges in sex with the wife of his guru or another superior. It is also the best method of atonement for one who murders women, the king or his father, for one who slaughters cows, and for all other sinful men. Simply by chanting the holy name of Lord Viṣṅu, such sinful persons may attract the attention of the Supreme Lord, who therefore considers, "Because this man has chanted My holy name, My duty is to give him protection.]

So there is advantage, a special advantage. What is that advantage? Immediately you become freed from all sinful reaction by chanting Viṣṅu's name, Hari's name, Hari's name, Kṛṣṅa's name. And not..., even not immediately; that is the beginning of your spiritual life. Because without being freed from sinful reactionary life, there is no possibility of becoming a pure Vaiṣṅava. He may be a Vaiṣṅava, performing the devotional service in the routine work, but if his behavior is not sinless he is called kadācāra, sudurācāra.

Of course, this sudurācāra, if it happens accidentally, without any consciousness... Sometimes we commit some sinful activity without knowledge or due to my past behavior. That accident, if one repents that "I should not have done this, but I am so sinful that I have again committed this sin," so this repentance will help him to be excused by the Supreme Lord. But if one commits sinful life intentionally, that is not to be excused. That is to be taken seriously.

Just like in this place, confluence of the river of Yamunā and Gaṅgā, one of the associates of Lord Caitanya committed suicide. You know, Choṭa Haridāsa. This Choṭa Haridāsa was associate of Lord Caitanya. He was daily singing kīrtana, and he was very nice singer. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu liked him. He was one of the associates in Purī. But somehow or other, he became inclined for sense gratification. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as Paramātmā, could understand, and He immediately asked His other associates, "Not to allow this man to come before Me any more."

So even Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and other big, big, big guns of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's associates, Rāmānanda Rāya, they requested that "This man is Your eternal servant. Somehow or other, he has committed this sin. So You kindly excuse him." Caitanya Mahāprabhu was so much stern in this respect that He immediately replied that "If you like Choṭa Haridāsa, better you remain with him. Let Me go away." So from that moment nobody ventured to request again Caitanya Mahāprabhu to excuse him.

So when he was hopeless not to be excused by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he came here in this place, Prayāga, and in the confluence of river Yamunā and Gaṅgā he committed suicide. He drowned himself. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu knew also this incident. So after some time, when he died, say after some months, He simply inquired, "Where is Choṭa Haridāsa now?" So his other associates replied, "Sir, You did not accept him, so he has committed suicide." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, this is very good. This is very good." So vajrād api kaṭhora. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was sometimes harder than the stone, and sometimes He was softer than the flower.

So that is the behavior of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sometimes He becomes very strong. Just like Kṛṣṅa says, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram andha-yoniṣu [Bg 16.19]:

[Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.]

"Those who are envious, I keep them constantly in the darkest region of hellish life." So Kṛṣṅa is very kind, but if He is angry, He is very hard also. Now, one may say, "Why God should be angry?" No, God is angry also; otherwise wherefrom this anger comes if God is not angry? Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]: everything is coming from the Absolute Truth.

[O my Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṅa, son of Vasudeva, O all-pervading Personality of Godhead, I offer my respectful obeisances unto You. I meditate upon Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa because He is the Absolute Truth and the primeval cause of all causes of the creation, sustenance and destruction of the manifested universes. He is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations, and He is independent because there is no other cause beyond Him. It is He only who first imparted the Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahmājī, the original living being. By Him even the great sages and demigods are placed into illusion, as one is bewildered by the illusory representations of water seen in fire, or land seen on water. Only because of Him do the material universes, temporarily manifested by the reactions of the three modes of nature, appear factual, although they are unreal. I therefore meditate upon Him, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa, who is eternally existent in the transcendental abode, which is forever free from the illusory representations of the material world. I meditate upon Him, for He is the Absolute Truth.]

If God is not angry, then wherefrom this anger comes? Because He is the original source of everything.

So everything is there, but His activity and our activity is different. If Kṛṣṅa is angry... Just like He becomes angry and He kills so many demons. But all of them got liberation. Therefore His anger and our anger is not the same. If we become angry unnecessarily... But sometimes we may also become angry in the service of the Lord, not for personal interest. Just like Hanumānjī. Hanumānjī, he became very angry upon Rāvaṅa and he devastated his kingdom, which was known as golden kingdom of Rāvaṅa. So not for his personal interest.

Arjuna also, he was nonviolent naturally, because he's a devotee of Kṛṣṅa. But when Kṛṣṅa asked him to fight he became very much angry, because without being angry you cannot fight. You have to agitate your mind even artificially. Then you can fight. Therefore, when there is fight both the parties, they stood very strongly so that agitate themselves to become angry. This is the process.

So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says that we can utilize these enemies, kāma, krodha, lobha—lust, anger, greediness. They can be utilized also for Kṛṣṅa's service. Kāma means lusty. One should be so much lusty to serve Kṛṣṅa. Just like we become lusty to have our desired object, similarly, we should be lusty to work for Kṛṣṅa as a madman: "I must do it." That is the utilization of lustiness. Kāma, krodha.

'Krodha' bhakta-dveṣi-jane [Prema-bhakti-candrikā].

[I will engage my lust by offering the fruits of my work to Lord Kṛṣṅa, and I will engage my anger by directing it at those who are envious of the lord's devotees. I will engage greed by becoming greedy to hear the glories of the Lord in the association of saintly devotees. By not attaining my worshipable Lord Kṛṣṅa, I will engage the quality of bewilderment; and I will engage madness by becoming mad to glorify the transcendental qualities of the Lord. In this way I will spiritualize these material qualities for the service of the Lord.]

One should be very much angry upon a person who is envious of the devotees. Yes. A pure devotee, satāṁ nindā, a pure devotee who is trying to spread the holy name of God, if somebody becomes envious upon him, that person is a great offender. So another devotee should be very much angry upon such person. 'Krodha' bhakta-dveṣi-jane. Bhakta-dveṣi means one who is envious of a pure devotee. And who is a pure devotee? Who is trying to spread the holy name of the Lord all over the world. Satāṁ nindā. This is offense.

So a devotee can utilize all these elements—lustiness, anger, kāma, krodha, greediness, and moha. Illusion also can be utilized. Just like illusion... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṅa me [Cc Antya 20.39]:

[My Lord Govinda, because of separation from You, I consider even a moment a great millennium. Tears flow from My eyes like torrents of rain, and I see the entire world as void.]

"I see everything vacant, being separated from Govinda." So when one is bewildered, illusioned, that can be also there. You become bewildered, illusioned, being separated from Govinda.

So the...

sarveṣām apy aghavatām idam eva suniṣkṛtam nāma-vyāharaṅaṁ viṣṅor yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ [SB 6.2.10]

[The chanting of the holy name of Lord Viṣṅu is the best process of atonement for a thief of gold or other valuables, for a drunkard, for one who betrays a friend or relative, for one who kills a brāhmaṅa, or for one who indulges in sex with the wife of his guru or another superior. It is also the best method of atonement for one who murders women, the king or his father, for one who slaughters cows, and for all other sinful men. Simply by chanting the holy name of Lord Viṣṅu, such sinful persons may attract the attention of the Supreme Lord, who therefore considers, "Because this man has chanted My holy name, My duty is to give him protection.]

So by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra one becomes free from sinful reaction. Not only that; he becomes very soon a devotee. Yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ. Yataḥ means simply by chanting. Here it is clearly stated, nāma-vyāharaṅam, chanting of the holy name. Vyāharaṅam means chanting; nāma-vyāharaṅaṁ viṣṅoḥ, "of Lord Viṣṅu." So not only he becomes free from all sinful reaction of his life, but yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ: his mind becomes fixed up in the lotus feet of Kṛṣṅa.

So try to understand what is the result of chanting, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc Ādi 17.21].

[In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.]

So without offense, without committing offense, if we regularly chant this Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra, then we remain freed from all sinful reaction of life and our attachment for the Supreme Lord in devotional service increases. Yatas tad-viṣayā matiḥ.

Brahma-vādibhiḥ. Brahma-vādī means those who are very much fond of Vedic rituals, performances, yajña. There was an argument, conversation, with Haridāsa Ṭhākura and a brāhmaṅa. The Haridāsa Ṭhākura says that offenseless chanting of this holy name of Lord, one not only becomes free, not only he becomes brahma-bhūta, but his love of Godhead manifests. The dormant love of Godhead manifests, and automatically he is liberated.

So that brāhmaṅa protested that "Don't exaggerate your chanting in this way. One becomes liberated after performing so much austerities, penances, and you say simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa? This is too much exaggeration." So there was argument, and the argument increased, and there was cursing also, and Haridāsa Ṭhākura was a little bit agitated, and the brāhmaṅa became offender and he suffered. That incidence is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

So the first stage of chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra is full of offenses. But if one sticks to the principle... Therefore we have to chant regularly sixteen rounds at least. So even there are offenses, by simply chanting and being repentant that "I have committed this offense unnecessarily, or without knowledge," so simply be repentant and go on chanting. Then the stage will come, it is called nāmābhāsa. That is offenseless, when there is no more offenses. That is called nāmābhāsa. At nāmābhāsa stage one becomes liberated immediately. And when one is liberated, if he goes on chanting—naturally he will go on chanting—then his love of Kṛṣṅa becomes manifest.

These are the three stages of chanting: chanting with offense, chanting as a liberated person and chanting in love of God. There are three stage of chanting. The same thing, the example is just like a mango, unripe mango, going on, changes. It is not that chanting brings another thing as a result. No. The same thing becomes manifest in different feature. Just like unripe mango, you taste in a different way; it is very sour. But when it is ripened and it is fully ripened, the taste is changed. The taste is now sweet.

So in the beginning we may be very much reluctant in the matter of chanting, but when you become liberated, the chanting will be so sweet that you cannot give up. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he has composed a śloka. He says in that śloka that "If I had millions of tongues and trillions of ears, then the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra would have been relishable. How..., what can I do with one tongue and two ears?"

So that is liberated stage. That is prema. But that stage is attainable. If you follow regularly the principles, everyone will attain to that stage when he simply likes to chant Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa, Kṛṣṅa Kṛṣṅa, Hare Hare / Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṅa.

Śyāmasundara: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: [break] ...again commit the sins, then you have to suffer.

Guest [Indian man]: We say, oṁ namaḥ śivāya, oṁ namaḥ śivāya. What is the difference, oṁ namaḥ śivāya, oṁ namo hare rāma? You say Hare Rāma mokṣa. Oṁ namaḥ śivāya is no mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest: Who is Śiva?

Prabhupāda: Śiva is Śiva.

Guest: No, Kārttikeya, who...? Daitya [indistinct]?

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but Śiva is Śiva.

Guest: Śiva, is he not a god?

Prabhupāda: He's a demigod.

Guest: Devi-god.

Prabhupāda: Demigod, not devi-god. Demigod.

Guest: He is also god.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God..., you are also god.

Guest: We are also, get the same reward through the Hare Rāma Kṛṣṅa mūrti.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Guest: That is, increases, eh?

Prabhupāda: If you chant Hare Kṛṣṅa you'll get the different result. And if you chant Śiva's name you'll get different result.

Guest: Which is the best?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṅa.

Yamunā: Haribol! [laughter]

Prabhupāda: If you chant Lord Śiva's name you will get material opulence, but if you chant Lord Viṣṅu's name, then you'll be transferred to the spiritual world. So we have to be very cautious. Just like a person, after being freed from the diseased condition, he is in convalescent stage. In convalescent, again if he does something wrong, the disease is relapse.

Then, at that time, one has to be very careful. Not that "Because I have become liberated, I'll do anything." No. That is going on. Just like we Indians, we have become independent, and therefore we are doing anything we like and we are conditioned now again.

Guest: [Hindi]

Prabhupāda: [Hindi with guest] Hare Kṛṣṅa.

[break] ...of Brahman. You are also Brahman. So your manifestation and Lord Śiva's manifestation is not the same. So there are different grades of manifestation. We have to know that. Although the thing is one, but there are different manifestation, not that because everything is one, that everyone is the same. No. Hare Kṛṣṅa.

Haṁsadūta: Hare Kṛṣṅa. [to tape:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. Prabhupāda just gave a wonderful example which I will repeat. He said that everything is one, just like wood. Wood in the primary stage is wood, and then in the smoking stage it's also wood. And then in the fire stage it is also wood, but fire is required. So in three stages... So similarly, the Supreme Lord is manifest as Brahmā, Śiva and Viṣṅu. So it is compared to the wood. [end]