Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 20.137–146

Haṁsadūta: The following lecture was recorded in the evening, 24th March, 1971, at Akash Ganga, Bombay.

Prabhupāda:

...na sāṅkhyaṁ dharma uddhava na svādhyāyas tapas tyāgo yathā bhaktir mamorjitā [Cc Ādi 17.76]

We have explained this verse yesterday, that in order to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, bhakti, devotional service, is required. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg 18.55]:

[One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.]

"Simply through devotional service one can understand Me." Not through knowledge, not through fruitive activities.

There are various types of men. The lowest stage is the karmīs. Karmīs means those who are working very hard for sense gratification. They are called karmīs. And the next stage is the jñānī. Wiser than the karmīs, they try to realize the value of life, what is the value of life. Not that blindly, simply working hard day and night.

Actually, human form of life is not meant for that purpose, to work so hard. Because the animals... Our tendency is also... Therefore the capitalists and the laborer class are there. Actually, we do not want to work hard. That is our tendency. But we want more profit for sense gratification. Therefore we utilize others' service, who will work for me, and I shall take the profit. This is the defect of modern civilization.

Actually, my tendency is... Just like when a man gets some money, he does not work very much. He takes some profit, either keeping in the bank some balance, and lives in a comfortable place. That is the tendency. Because we are spiritual entities, our natural tendency is to enjoy life. Spiritual entities means by nature, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12]; by nature, they want to enjoy life.

Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. That is the spiritual nature. As Kṛṣṅa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is by nature joyful, similarly, we being part and parcel of Kṛṣṅa, we are also by nature joyful. But unfortunately, we have been put into such condition, material condition, that we are trying to enjoy life in this material condition. That is not possible.

So karmīs, they are trying their best to make material adjustments and enjoy life. They are called karmīs. But when they are wiser, that "We have worked so hard, but actually we could not enjoy life. Then what is the problem of life?" that is the platform of the jñānīs and the yogīs.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that these karmīs, the jñānīs... In another place, in His instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī, He has said that in the human society there are different kinds of people. Out of that, those who are followers of the Vedic civilization, they are supposed to be first-class human being. So out of the followers of Vedic civilization, mostly they say that "We are followers of Vedic civilization," but actually they do not do. Actually, they, I mean to say, indulge in anything which is not sanctioned by the Vedic knowledge or Vedic scriptures.

Take, for example, that in our Vedic civilization, these four things are prohibited: illicit sex life, animal-killing, intoxication and gambling. This is the preliminary understanding. Especially those who are higher caste—brāhmaṅa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—they are strictly forbidden. That is the Vedic injunction. But although we pose ourself followers of Vedic injunction, we indulge in these things.

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Most people, they call themselves as followers of Vedic civilization, but actually they do not obey all the rules and regulations." Then again He says that "Persons who are actually trying to follow the Vedic rules and regulations, mostly they are karmīs." Karmīs means they are attracted by the ritualistic ceremonies, just like performing great sacrifices, yajña, for elevating oneself to the higher planetary system.

They are called karmīs. "And above them," He says, "out of many thousands of karmīs, one person is jñānī or yogī. So out of many such jñānīs, one person may be a mukta, or liberated soul. And out of many thousands of liberated souls, there may be one devotee of Kṛṣṅa." That is the division Caitanya Mahāprabhu makes.

Therefore, to become a person Kṛṣṅa conscious, a Kṛṣṅa conscious person, from the systematic way, it is very difficult. But by the mercy of Kṛṣṅa Himself, He has made the path very easy. Otherwise, Kṛṣṅa consciousness is not very easy task. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg 18.55].

[One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.]

Therefore Kṛṣṅa says,

bhaktyāham ekayā grāhyaḥ śraddhayātmā priyaḥ satām bhaktiḥ punāti man-niṣṭhā śva-pākān api sambhavāt [SB 11.14.21]

Simply by devotional service one becomes purified, even he is born in the family of the dog-eaters. That is the Vedic version. Caitanya Mahāprabhu quotes from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ataeva bhakti kṛṣṅa prāptyera [Cc Madhya 20.139]. Therefore He concludes that "If you want at all Kṛṣṅa..." Kṛṣṅa... We should, everyone should want Kṛṣṅa. Because as soon as we get Kṛṣṅa... Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ [Bg 6.22].

[The stage of perfection is called trance, or samādhi, when one's mind is completely restrained from material mental activities by practice of yoga. This is characterized by one's ability to see the self by the pure mind and to relish and rejoice in the self. In that joyous state, one is situated in boundless transcendental happiness and enjoys himself through transcendental senses. Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact.]

If actually we get Kṛṣṅa, then we shall not consider any other profit more valuable than Kṛṣṅa.

Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja went to practice yoga in the forest, Madhuvana. The idea was to get the kingdom of his father. Now, actually when he saw Kṛṣṅa, Viṣṅu... The picture is here; you can see. Actually when he saw by his severe austerities and penances, a small boy, five-years-old boy, then he said, "My dear Lord, now when You offer benediction that 'You take whatever benediction you want, you take from Me,' " he said, svamin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc Madhya 22.42].

[[When he was being blessed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Dhruva Mahārāja said:] ’O my Lord, because I was seeking an opulent material position, I was performing severe types of penance and austerity. Now I have gotten You, who are very difficult for the great demigods, saintly persons and kings to attain. I was searching after a piece of glass, but instead I have found a most valuable jewel. Therefore I am so satisfied that I do not wish to ask any benediction from You.]

That is the process. If one gets Kṛṣṅa, he thinks that no more any other benediction is required. He becomes fully satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "I am fully satisfied." Therefore we find a kṛṣṅa-bhakta is always satisfied, because he has no demand.

In other place Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kṛṣṅa-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta [Cc Madhya 19.149].

[Because a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṅa is desireless, he is peaceful. Fruitive workers desire material enjoyment, jñānīs desire liberation, and yogīs desire material opulence; therefore they are all lusty and cannot be peaceful.]

So long you have got demands to fulfill your desires, you cannot be happy. Kṛṣṅa-bhakta, kṛṣṅa-bhakta has no demand. They do not demand that "Kṛṣṅa, favor me in this way or that way." No. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam [Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11].

[One should render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṅa favorably and without desire for material profit or gain through fruitive activities or philosophical speculation. That is called pure devotional service.]

They are completely free from demanding anything from Kṛṣṅa. That is Kṛṣṅa..., pure devotee. Kṛṣṅa bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta. Therefore they are pacified, they are peaceful.

And bhukti mukti siddhi kāmī sakali aśānta. Bhukti means these karmīs, they want elevated life of sense gratification, bhukti. That is called bhukti. From bhoga, bhukti. Bhukti or mukti, liberation. They are also not, I mean to say, peaceful because they are making sādhana, austerities, penances, to get liberation. There is demand, that "I shall be liberated." So there is demand.

So the karmīs, they have also demand; the jñānīs, they have also demand; and the yogīs, they have also demand because they want siddhi, eight kinds of siddhi: aṅimā, laghimā... A yogī can become very light. They can become..., they can become the smallest. Such siddhis, such mystic powers, they can attain. So they have also demand. They are trying to get some material perfection. Just like flying in the sky or walking on the water—these things are very wonderful, and people are very much amazed. If you can walk on the water, so many followers you will get immediately. That is a wonderful thing for common man.

So the yogīs want these mystic power. Therefore they have also demand. Muktīs, the jñānīs, they have also demand; the karmīs also have the demand. But the bhaktas... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the ideal bhakta. He's teaching us how to become exceptionally perfect devotee. So He says in His Śikṣāṣṭaka,

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye [Cc Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]

[O Lord of the universe, I do not desire material wealth, materialistic followers, a beautiful wife or fruitive activities described in flowery language. All I want, life after life, is unmotivated devotional service to You.]

"I do not want riches," na dhanam. Na janam, "I do not want number of followers." Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. "I do not want very beautiful, nice, poetic wife." Mama janmani janmanīśvare. Janmani janmani means He does not want even liberation, because when there is liberation, there is no question of janmani janmani. So He says, mama janmani janmani īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi.

So this is the sample of pure devotee. A pure devotee does not want even liberation. Dīyamānaṁ na gṛhṅanti [SB 3.29.13]. If liberation is offered to a devotee, he does not want it. He'll refuse to accept it. He is satisfied only in the service of the Lord. That is the standard of satisfac... Or in other words, to a devotee, liberation is not very valuable thing. Just like our one devotee, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī... No, Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. He says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate [Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5]. Like that. So devotee's position is very sublime. Devotee's position is the most exalted, transcendental position of a pure devotee who does not want anything except Kṛṣṅa.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṅānu- śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama [Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11]

[One should render transcendental loving service to the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṅa favorably and without desire for material profit or gain through fruitive activities or philosophical speculation. That is called pure devotional service.]

That is.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ataeva bhakti kṛṣṅa prāptyera. The conclusion is that if you want Kṛṣṅa, then you have to take the path of devotional service. That will help you. And that bhakti is technically known as abhidheya. That is the technical, abhidheya. Abhidheya means discharging one's duty. That is abhidheya. Or the performance of the means by which one can reach the ultimate goal of life. That is called abhidheya.

dhana pāile yaiche sukha bhoga phala pāya sukha-bhoga haite duḥkha āpani palāya

taiche bhakti-phale kṛṣṅe prema upajaya preme kṛṣṅāsvāda haile bhava nāśa pāya [Cc Madhya 20.140-41]

He says that "If a poor man gets some money, not only he becomes happy, but the symptoms of his poverty is also immediately vanquished." Just like a poor man gets, say, ten lakhs of rupees. Immediately he'll have a nice bungalow, he'll have two, three cars, and so many other opulences. So simultaneously, the distress out of his poverty-stricken life is also vanquished, and there are symptoms of sukha, symptoms of happiness. We suppose like that. If a man has got a car, we think he's very happy. But this is a symptom of happiness. A poor man cannot get a car, but a rich man cannot get... If one has got a car, it is understood that he is rich man.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that automatically the symptoms of happiness come unto him, and his distress of material condition simultaneously becomes vanquished if one is elevated to the position of devotional service. That is the test. That is the test of how one is advanced in devotional service. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca [SB 11.2.42].

[Devotion, direct experience of the Supreme Lord, and detachment from other things—these three occur simultaneously for one who has taken shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, in the same way that pleasure, nourishment and relief from hunger come simultaneously and increasingly, with each bite, for a person engaged in eating.]

He is no more interested in material happiness. He is fully satisfied with Kṛṣṅa.

Taiche bhakti-phale kṛṣṅe prema upajaya. Kṛṣṅa bhakti-phale. These, by the, as a result of kṛṣṅa-bhakti, devotional service... The same devotional service for the neophyte and the same devotional service for the advanced devotee, but the advanced devotee enjoys life, but the neophyte devotee simply practices. That is the difference. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives the example: just like mango.

The mango remains the same, but in the unripe stage the taste is little different, whereas in the ripened stage the taste is different. So bhakti in the beginning maybe tastes a little pungent. One may feel very inconvenient to discharge devotional service according to the rules and regulation of the śāstra. But when he is advanced, the same service will appear to be very palatable, very relishable.

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ yasmin sthite guruṅāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate [Bg 6.22]

[The stage of perfection is called trance, or samādhi, when one's mind is completely restrained from material mental activities by practice of yoga. This is characterized by one's ability to see the self by the pure mind and to relish and rejoice in the self. In that joyous state, one is situated in boundless transcendental happiness and enjoys himself through transcendental senses. Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact.]

So devotional service... Because it is transcendental, pure, spiritual, and we are, every one of us, hankering after to be elevated to the spiritual stage of life because we are spiritual entities. The same example, as I have repeatedly explained, that if you take a fish out of the water, however you may keep comfortably on the land, it will never be happy unless and until it is again thrown in the water.

Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, part and parcel of Kṛṣṅa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg 15.7]. So however we may try to make ourself happy by material adjustment, it is not possible. We must turn to the spiritual life, or devotional... Spiritual life means devotional service. That is real spiritual life.

As Kṛṣṅa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ ca vyabhicāriṅi-bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate: "One who is engaged in bhakti-yoga service," sa guṅan samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg 14.26],

[One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.]

"he's already in the Brahman stage." People cannot understand how bhakti is on the Brahman platform. But here the Lord Himself says, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate.

dāridrya-nāśa bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' nay prema-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya [Cc Madhya 20.142]

[The goal of love of Godhead is not to become materially rich or free from material bondage. The real goal is to be situated in devotional service to the Lord and to enjoy transcendental bliss.]

So when one is elevated in the platform of devotional service, it is not that he gets some material happiness, that is the result. No. Material happiness automatically comes to him. Material happiness..., a devotee is not bereft of material happiness. Automatically comes to him. So that is not the ultimate goal of a devotee's life. A devotee's ultimate goal of life: how he becomes, I mean to say, a lover of the Supreme Lord.

The example are the gopīs, or the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. They had no other desire. They simply wanted to love Kṛṣṅa. They wanted to see Kṛṣṅa very happy. That feeling of happiness, that thinking of Kṛṣṅa, that is the highest perfection of life. Always, constantly thinking of Kṛṣṅa. That was their happiness. They do not..., they did not try to derive any material happiness by loving Kṛṣṅa. There was no such thing. That is pure love. [indistinct]

dāridrya-nāśa bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' naya prema-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya [Cc Madhya 20.142]

So we should be trying for that position when we shall relish what is the position by loving Kṛṣṅa, by loving God.

veda-śāstre kahe sambandha abhidheya prayojana kṛṣṅa kṛṣṅa-bhakti prema-tina mahā-dhana [Cc Madhya 20.143]

[In the Vedic literatures, Kṛṣṅa is the central point of attraction, and His service is our activity. To attain the platform of love of Kṛṣṅa is life’s ultimate goal. Therefore Kṛṣṅa, Kṛṣṅa’s service and love of Kṛṣṅa are the three great riches of life.]

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu concludes again that we are after dhana. Dhana are riches. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that Kṛṣṅa and kṛṣṅa-bhakti, devotional service, and love of Kṛṣṅa, these three items are the topmost riches of our life.

vedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṅa-mukhya sambandha tāṅra jñāne ānuṣaṅge yāya māyā-bandha [Cc Madhya 20.144]

Caitanya Mahāprabhu further says that the purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṅa. And as soon as one understands Kṛṣṅa, automatically the tinges of māyā, the influence of māyā, automatically becomes vanquished. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam..., er, Bhagavad-gītā, that,

daivī hy eṣā guṅamayī mama māyā duratyayā mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti [te] [Bg 7.14]

[This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.]

"It is very difficult to surmount the stringent laws of material nature, but anyone who surrenders unto Me, very easily, automatically, simultaneously he becomes freed from the contamination of māyā."

mukhya-gauṅa-vṛtti, kiṁvā anvaya vyatireke vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṅake [Cc Madhya 20.146]

Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Directly or indirectly, whichever Vedic literature you study, you'll find that the aim is to understand Kṛṣṅa." When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was speaking, He proved that in the Koran there is kṛṣṅa-bhakti. When He was coming back from Vṛndāvana, at a place... It is known as Soro. Perhaps you know, Soro. That is a holy place, Soro. Still, people go there. There is a nice place, Soro. So there Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was chanting and dancing, He sometimes fainted. So in the course of His chanting and dancing, when He fainted, then His personal assistants, they were treating Him.

So one batch of soldiers, Moghul, Pathan soldiers, were passing that way. So the chief of the soldiers, of the army, they were surprised, that "How is that? One man is lying unconscious, and others are treating him. This must have been..., this man must have been poisoned by these men." So they came down, because they were government men, they came down and challenged all these men that "You have given this man some drug so that he's fainted, and you wanted to plunder him. So we arrest you." Then they said, "No, sir. We have not done anything such. He faints like that while chanting. Now He'll be... Very soon He'll get up, because we are also chanting. Hearing, hearing, He will get up."

So in this way, when He came to His consciousness, the Muslims, these Pathan soldiers, they were very happy to see Him. So there was a Mullah. So he talked with Him. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu—I am summarizing the story; this story is very big—He talked with that Mullah, and He proved from the Koran that there is kṛṣṅa-bhakti. He proved from the Koran that there is kṛṣṅa-bhakti, there is hint of kṛṣṅa-bhakti.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says here also that indirectly... When I speak of Kṛṣṅa, you should know, Kṛṣṅa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You may call Him by any other name; that is a different thing. But Kṛṣṅa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,

mukhya-gauṅa-vṛtti kiṁvā anvaya vyatireke vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṅake [Cc Madhya 20.146]

You take any literature, any Vedic literature, religious literature, you'll find that the whole literature, whole knowledge, is aiming at Kṛṣṅa. That is the purport of all Vedas and religious scripture.

kṛṣṅera svarūpa-ananta vaibhava-apāra cic-chakti māyā-śakti jīva-śakti āra [Cc Madhya 20.149]

Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is explaining what is the identification of Kṛṣṅa. In the beginning He says, kṛṣṅera svarūpa ananta. Kṛṣṅa has form, svarūpa. Kṛṣṅa is not formless, but He has got many millions of forms. Not one form, many millions of forms. But He has form. He is not impersonal. Kṛṣṅera svarūpa ananta. Ananta means unlimited. That is also confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṅa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs 5.33]

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, who is without a second, who is not subject to decay, is without a beginning, whose form is endless, who is the beginning, and the eternal puruṣa; yet He is a person possessing the beauty of blooming youth.]

The Brahma-saṁhitā says that advaita acyuta. Advaita means although Kṛṣṅa has many forms, many expansions, still, they are one. There is no duality. Just like Kṛṣṅa and Rāma, They are one. They are not different. Similarly, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan [Bs 5.39].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who manifested Himself personally as Kṛṣṅa and the different avatāras in the world in the forms of Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Vāmana, etc., as His subjective portions.]

Beginning from Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, He has got innumerable forms. Tiṣṭhan: He is existing always with all these forms, expansions, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā.

Just like Kṛṣṅa existing in everyone's heart. There are millions and trillions of living entities. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg 18.61].

[The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.]

Kṛṣṅa is existing. That is Kṛṣṅa's omnipotency. If you do not try to understand God, or Kṛṣṅa, with inconceivable omnipotency, then you cannot understand God. That is not possible.

So Kṛṣṅa... Just like we are sitting here; we are not sitting in the other room. But Kṛṣṅa can sit in innumerable rooms simultaneously at one time. Therefore He is all-pervading. Just like Kṛṣṅa married 16,108 wives. Nārada came to see Kṛṣṅa, and every palace he entered he saw Kṛṣṅa was there. And with some wife, in some wife's palace He is playing with children, or some wife's He's just taking bath. Or in another palace He was playing chess. In this way he differently saw Kṛṣṅa in different palaces. So in 16,000 palaces he saw Kṛṣṅa.

That is Kṛṣṅa. Not that He married 16,000 wives but He remained one. He also expanded Himself sixteen hundred times. That is Kṛṣṅa. He can expand Himself. Rāsa-līlā... Rāsa-līlā, every gopī was feeling that "Kṛṣṅa is dancing with me." So many gopīs. That is Kṛṣṅa. He can expand. But He has got form. He is not formless. The Māyāvādī philosopher thinks because Kṛṣṅa is all-pervading, therefore He has no form. No. That is not fact. He has form, but His form is not like your form and my form.

This form is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs 5.33].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, who is without a second, who is not subject to decay, is without a beginning, whose form is endless, who is the beginning, and the eternal puruṣa; yet He is a person possessing the beauty of blooming youth.]

Acyuta. And He does not fall down. Acyuta means thing which does not fall down. So just like we are, we are living entities, we fall down in the clutches of māyā. But Kṛṣṅa does not fall down. The Māyāvādī philosophers mistake that. They think that as we come to this material world with a material body, similarly, Kṛṣṅa also comes with a material body. No. That is not the fact. Therefore Kṛṣṅa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ [Bg 9.11].

[Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be.]

Mūḍha. Mūḍha means those who are not intelligent. "They think that I am also ordinary man."

Therefore there is controversy, "Why I shall worship Kṛṣṅa? Kṛṣṅa cannot... The Supreme Lord cannot come in this way, just like ordinary man, and making friendship with Arjuna and driving his chariot, or dancing with the gopīs." They cannot conceive. They cannot accommodate within their tiny brain that Kṛṣṅa is so powerful, He's so... We say that Kṛṣṅa, God, is all-powerful, God is all omnipotent, but when God shows actually that He's omnipotent, all-powerful, they do not believe. That is their defect.

But the manifestation which Kṛṣṅa showed when He was actually present, He's the Supreme Lord.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva ṣaṅṅāṁ bhaga itīṅganā [Viṣṅu Purāṅa 6.5.47]

[Full wealth, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge and renunciation—these are the six opulences of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.]

He fully manifested, or demonstrated, the six opulences of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṅa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg 7.7]:

[O conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.]

"There is no other supreme power or supreme personality than Myself."

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the same thing. What Kṛṣṅa has said in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is spoken about Kṛṣṅa in all the Vedic literature, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the same thing in His teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī.

So we shall discuss further. Thank you very much.

Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: What is that? Mecca?

Guest: [Hindi]

Prabhupāda: As you have got pilgrimage, everyone has got pilgrimage. Muslims have got, Christians they have got, Hindus they have got. That means they go to pilgrimage with God consciousness. So in Koran there is God consciousness, in Bible there is God consciousness, in Vedas God consciousness. Now you have to utilize it, develop it. The aim and objective is already there. But in the Vedic literature they are very explicitly presented. That is the difference. The Christians, they agree, "God is great." We also agree, "God is great." But how God is great, that is explained in the Vedic literature. That is the difference between.

There is no difference of opinion if one is actually religious. "God created this world," "God is the supreme father," "God is great," this is accepted by everyone, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian. There is no doubt about it. But in the Vedic literature you'll understand how God is great, how He is acting as father. That's all. Even God's name is there, God's address is there. Do you agree to this point? Yes. That is the difference. Any other scriptures, if you ask what is the name of God, what is His address, what He is doing, they cannot give you. But we can give.

We do not give; God Himself gives, Kṛṣṅa. Kṛṣṅa says, "My address is like this." What is that? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg 15.6]. That is address. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [Bg 8.20]. God is giving address. We have to note down. And His name is Kṛṣṅa.

You'll find Vyāsadeva is writing, śrī bhagavān uvāca, "the Supreme Personality of Godhead speaking, or Kṛṣṅa." And in the śāstras there is list of incarnation of God. And Vyāsadeva concludes: ete cāṁśa kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṅas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]:

[All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.]

"All the list, comprehending list, they are either part or part of the part of God. But the name Kṛṣṅa," kṛṣṅas tu bhagavān svayam, "He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Similarly, in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṅaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṅa-kāraṅam [Bs 5.1]

[Kṛṣṅa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.]

Sarva-kāraṅa-kāraṅam. And Kṛṣṅa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ kiñcid asti, kiñcid asti dhanañjaya. "There is no more." Everyone is cause. You are... You are... Your cause..., your cause for appearance is your father. The cause of your father's appearance is his father. You go on—father, father, father, father—you reach Brahmā, who is called the supreme forefather. Then Brahmā is also born of Viṣṅu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṅu. And the Garbhodakaśayī is also appeared from Kāraṅodakaśāyī Viṣṅu. In this way, go on, go on. And Saṅkarṣaṅa, Nārāyaṅa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha—there are so many. And at last you reach Kṛṣṅa. Therefore Kṛṣṅa is the cause of all causes.

So Kṛṣṅa's name is there, God's name is there, God's address is there, and how to reach God, the process is there. Then why you'll not utilize this? What is the reason? Why you say, "Can you show me God? Is there any God?" Why do you say like this? What is the reason? Everything, information, is there, and still you say, "Can you show me God?" "Who is God?" "There is no God," "God is dead." Why do you talk like that? If you say that "How we can understand that Kṛṣṅa is the Supreme Lord?" then you have to approach authorities. Just like if you want to purchase some diamonds, you cannot understand whether it is diamond, but you go to a jeweler and he'll say yes or no: "Yes, it is real."

So you have to go to the authorities. Who are the authorities? At least, in our country. Not only in... All countries. So our authorities, the whole Vedic civilization is going on under the authorities of ācārya. They are coming by disciplic succession: Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṅu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya—there are so many authorized ācāryas. What is their opinion?

Their opinion: krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28].

[All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.]

The śāstra is there, the authoritative statement is there, and the activities are there. Then what reason you have got not to believe that Kṛṣṅa is not God? What reason you have got? Here is God. And those who are devotees of Kṛṣṅa, actually see their life, how they are advanced in God consciousness, or Kṛṣṅa consciousness.

But the difficulty is, as Kṛṣṅa says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ [Bg 7.15]

[Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me.]

The duṣkṛtinaḥ, the miscreants, those who are always engaged in mischievous activities... Such persons are called duṣkṛtina. So duṣkṛtina class, na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā. Mūḍha means less intelligent or foolish class men. Na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā prapadyante: "They do not accept Me," narādhama, "the lowest of the mankind." "No, they have got very much educated." Kṛṣṅa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "Yes, they are educated, but their knowledge has been taken away by māyā." Why? Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have taken to this view, 'There is no God.' " On this account they cannot understand in spite of high degrees of university education. Māyāyapahrta-jñāna.

So Kṛṣṅa says like that. The only reason is because duṣkṛtina mūḍhā māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuri-bhāvam... Therefore, in spite of all evidences from the śāstras, they'll not accept Kṛṣṅa as the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead. That's it. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja requested his father so many times, but still, he did not agree that there is God.

[break] But he agreed there is God when he was killed by God. Yes. That you cannot escape. Then you'll see God: "Here is God." The asuras, they will never accept God, but when they are killed by God, they understand that "Yes, there is God." That is the difference between asuras and devas. The devas, they accept God while living, and the asuras accept God by being killed. That's all.

And who can escape killing? Is there any scientist, is there any philosopher, any great man who can stop being killed by the cruel death? Is there any man? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg 10.34]:

[I am all-devouring death, and I am the generator of all things yet to be. Among women I am fame, fortune, speech, memory, intelligence, faithfulness and patience.]

"I am mṛtyu." Mṛtyu means death, which takes away everything at a time.

Just like "I am very rich man," "I am very big industrialist," "I am prime minister," this, that, so many things. "I am in possession of all I survey. I am the master of my country and everything." That's all right. As soon as death comes, "Oh, I am Jawaharlal Nehru," "I am Gandhi," "Oh! Never mind! Please go away! Finish. Stop your all leadership." That is God.

You don't believe; you may not believe God, but when death comes you have to believe in God. Let the scientists and let the big leaders and rich men protect himself from death. Then you can say that there is no God.

[break] This atheism, denying the existence of God, is not very good. Therefore Kṛṣṅa consciousness movement is very important.

[pause] Prasāda, you have given prasāda? I'll take. First of all... [end]