Bhagavad-gītā 4.6

Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. [Prabhupāda and devotees repeat] [leads chanting of verse]

ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg 4.6]

[Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.]

[break] [03:04]

Translation: "Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original, transcendental form."

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṅa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, explaining the method of His appearance and disappearance. People do not know it. Just like the sun. Because we do not see at night, formerly some people used to think, "The sun is now dead, or gone." But later on, by scientific method, they have come to know the sun is always in the sky. Due to our different position, we do not see the sun at night. Otherwise, the sun is there. This is... If this is possible for an ordinary material thing, how much it is greatly possible for the Supreme Spirit.

Therefore ajo 'pi san: Kṛṣṅa has no birth, no death. We have also no birth and death, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṅa. We have no birth and death; that is explained already in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg 2.20]. So if the part and parcel particles, small atomic particle... We are atomic particle. Our magnitude is described in the śāstra, Padma Purāṅa and Upaniṣad also: keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatataḥ kalpitasya ca [Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 5.9]. The top portion of the hair, if you divide it into one hundred parts, and again, that one hundredth part, if you divide again hundred part, that is the magnitude of the spirit soul. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatataḥ kalpitasya, bhāgo jīvaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate.

So we living entities, a small particle, very atomic small particle, one ten thousandth part of the top of the hair. It can simply be imagined. We are acintya. But we understand from Vedic literature what is the magnitude. It is not nirākāra. That is not a fact. It has got ākāra. But at our present position, material condition, we cannot measure it. And because we cannot measure it... Just like in geometry, I have studied that point has no breadth and length. But actually there is breadth and length, but we cannot measure it. Similarly, the magnitude of the spirit soul is smaller than the point. We cannot measure it with our material measuring instruments. Anyway, even if you can, that is the magnitude. So that small particle is described in the Bhagavad-gītā that na jāyate na mriyate. That small particle has also no birth and death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg 2.20]. It is so powerful that, because that small particle is within this body, dehino 'smin yathā dehe [Bg 2.13],

[As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.]

it is so healthy, so bright, moving so swiftly, acting so nicely, it has got so nice brain; and as soon as that small particle, atomic particle, is gone from this body, it is useless, a lump of matter.

So if so much power is there for the small particle of the Supreme Soul, how much the Supreme Soul, who is all-pervading, universal form, how much potency he has got you can just imagine. Therefore Kṛṣṅa says, ajo 'pi: "Although I have no birth and death." Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Ātmā means this body, ātmā means this mind, and ātmā means the soul. Three things, they are called ātmā. So Kṛṣṅa's either body or mind or the soul, there is no difference. Kṛṣṅa's body is avyaya. Our body is vyaya; it deteriorates, changes. [sound of children talking in background] Ask them to stop. Or let them go away.

Our body deteriorates, changes. Just like we are born, a small child, baby. It grows, it stays for some time. Then it makes some by-products. From this body, we get some children, by-products. Then we deteriorate in old age, and this body is finished. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra, six kinds of changes of material body. But Kṛṣṅa hasn't got such changes. Kṛṣṅa body is avyaya. His mind is avyaya. That means, as we have got difference between our soul and the body, Kṛṣṅa hasn't got that. Avyayātmā. His mind, His body and His ātmā, His soul, the same thing. Or, ādi... He is Supreme Soul, whole. There is no difference between His body, His mind and soul. This is to be understood. Avyayātmā.

Those who cannot understand, they make difference between His ātmā, Kṛṣṅa's ātmā, and Kṛṣṅa's body. They think... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "Kṛṣṅa, He is God... Or godly"—they have got the imagination—"but His body is made of matter." No. That is not. If His body had been made of matter, then how He could remember millions of years ago what He did? We cannot remember even what we did yesterday night or just this morning. We forget. The body's changing. The blood corpuscles are changing. That is scientific. But Kṛṣṅa hasn't got that. Therefore He is explaining Himself. We can understand Kṛṣṅa by Kṛṣṅa's explanation. We should not make any rascal interpretation. Then we'll not be able to understand Kṛṣṅa.

Because our senses are imperfect.

athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya- prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvaṁ [SB 10.14.29]

[My Lord, if one is favored by even a slight trace of the mercy of Your lotus feet, he can understand the greatness of Your personality. But those who speculate to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead are unable to know You, even though they continue to study the Vedas for many years.]

Either you have to understand Kṛṣṅa from the Kṛṣṅa personally—that is not possible—or one who has got, received the favor of Kṛṣṅa, from him you can understand Kṛṣṅa. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi. One who is favored with a little mercy of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṅa, he can understand Kṛṣṅa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg 18.55].

[One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.]

One who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṅa, that means he is pure devotee. From him you can understand what is Kṛṣṅa. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānu... Prasāda-leśa, minute quantity of mercy, one who has received from Kṛṣṅa, he can understand.

Or here is Kṛṣṅa explaining Himself, that what He is. Ajaḥ, He has no birth and death. One who thinks that "Kṛṣṅa appeared, and He is now dead. Now another Kṛṣṅa has appeared," that is not the fact. Kṛṣṅa is one. He can expand Himself in many forms. That is different thing. But Kṛṣṅa... Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam [Bs 5.33].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, who is without a second, who is not subject to decay, is without a beginning, whose form is endless, who is the beginning, and the eternal puruṣa; yet He is a person possessing the beauty of blooming youth.]

Ananta haya. He has multi, innumerable forms, but still, He's one, advaita. Advaitam acyutam: He does not fall. He, Kṛṣṅa... Suppose īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg 18.61],

[The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.]

because Kṛṣṅa has expanded Himself in many millions of forms to stay within the heart of the living being, that does not mean Kṛṣṅa has fallen. Avyayātmā. He's the same Kṛṣṅa. There is no difference. Kṛṣṅa is existing in innumerable universes. Kṛṣṅa is existing everywhere; still, He's avyayātmā. From the original Kṛṣṅa, although He has expanded into millions and trillions, unlimited, still, He's avyaya, without any minus. It is not like that we have got some bank balance, and if it is taken away millions times, then it is finished. No. Pūrṅasya pūrṅam ādāya pūrṅam evāvaśiṣyate. This is Kṛṣṅa. This is the verdict of the Vedānta. Pūrṅasya pūrṅam ādāya pūrṅam idam, pūrṅāt pūrṅam udacyate [Īśo Invocation].

[The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance.]

Everything which is emanating from Kṛṣṅa, that is complete. There is no deficiency. Everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Absolute Truth... That is Absolute Truth.

So in all the Vedas, Upaniṣads, Saṁhitās, the same thing is described in different way. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13], in this way.

[The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living entities.]

Here Kṛṣṅa Himself describes Himself that ajo 'pi and avyayātmā. Avyayātmā. It does... Kṛṣṅa's body, mind, there is no difference—absolute. What is Kṛṣṅa's body, that is Kṛṣṅa's soul. What is Kṛṣṅa's mind, that is Kṛṣṅa's soul. Or what is Kṛṣṅa's soul, that is Kṛṣṅa's body, that is Kṛṣṅa. Avyayātmā. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. Īśvaraḥ. He's not ordinary living being. Bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. That is the difference. He's īśvaraḥ. We are not īśvaraḥ. We may be īśvaraḥ. Īśvaraḥ means controller. But that, we are not the supreme īśvara. The supreme īśvara is called Kṛṣṅa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṅaḥ [Bs 5.1].

[Kṛṣṅa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body. He is the origin of all. He has no other origin and He is the prime cause of all causes.]

We are not supreme īśvara.

The so-called incarnation of God, they declare that "I am God." But... He may be God; God means a subordinate god. Not the Supreme God. The Supreme God is Kṛṣṅa. God means controller. You have..., you may have some controlling power, admitted, but you are not Supreme Controller. The Supreme Controller is Īśvara. Therefore here Kṛṣṅa... Therefore Kṛṣṅa says, bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi. Īśvaraḥ. All bhūta... Bhūtānām means all living entities, or everything which has appeared within this material world. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]: He is the supreme source of everything. That is also described in the Tenth Chapter that aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2], mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Everything. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg 7.7].

[O conqueror of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.]

These things are described.

So we have to accept Kṛṣṅa like that. And if we make our own interpretation, rascal-like, that will not help us to understand what is Kṛṣṅa and what is Bhagavad-gītā. That is going on, generally. "Kṛṣṅa has no existence," "Kṛṣṅa, there was no Kṛṣṅa. It is story," "There was no Battlefield of Kurukṣetra." These things are going on by..., spoken by so-called political leaders and scholars. But that is not the fact. They do not understand Kṛṣṅa; simply mislead people. Therefore the world is in chaotic condition. Try to understand Kṛṣṅa. Then your life will be successful. Kṛṣṅa is explaining. Kṛṣṅa is so kind that... Yadā yadā hi dharmasya [Bg 4.7]. He'll explain that, why He comes. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san sambhavāmi yuge yuge, why? Just to remind us what is Kṛṣṅa. Just to teach us. Because we misunderstand. We are so fools and rascals, we misunderstand Kṛṣṅa. We cannot understand. If we simply understand Kṛṣṅa, then our life is successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg 4.9].

[One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.]

The simple thing. Just try to understand Kṛṣṅa. This simple, one thing will make your life successful.

So Kṛṣṅa is explaining Himself. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro..., prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. Prakṛtiṁ svām. Personal. Personal energy, or personal form. Kṛṣṅa is... He has got His personal form, that Śyāmasundara, with flute. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: cintāmaṅi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs 5.29]. He's very fond of tending cows. Surabhīr abhipālaya. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham... Veṅuṁ kvaṅantam: He's very fond of playing on flute. Aravinda-dalāyatākṣam: His eyes are just like petals of the lotus flower. These are described in the Vedic literature. So Kṛṣṅa is not formless. It is not that the devotees of Kṛṣṅa, by imagination, they have... As the Māyāvādī rascals say, that Kṛ..., "They have made a form by imagination." No. This is..., this is described in the Vedas. So... And Kṛṣṅa, when appeared on this planet, the same thing was visible. Those who have seen, authorities... Just like Vyāsadeva, Arjuna. He has seen personally. He has described in the Bhagavad-gītā: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg 10.12]:

[Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all-pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa proclaim this of You, and now You Yourself are declaring it to me.]

"Your personality is unknown to the so-called scholars. But authorities like Vyāsa, Devala, Nārada, Asita, they accept Your this form." It is very difficult... These things are there. You'll find in the Tenth Chapter.

So Kṛṣṅa is not formless, but His... What kind of form He has got, He is describing Himself. Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. How we are... We are forced to take birth by the manipulation of the external, material energy.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṅāni guṅaiḥ karmāṅi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg 3.27]

[The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.]

Ahaṅkāra... We are under the clutches of the external energy, or material energy. Kṛṣṅa has got multi-energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate [Cc Madhya 13.65, purport]. Māyā means energy also. Māyā means energy. And māyā means illusion also. And māyā means affection. There are different meanings of māyā. So here it is said prakṛtim... Prakṛtim and māyā. Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. He has got multi-energies. That energies have been divided into three: external energy, internal energy and marginal energy.

That you will, also, you will find in the Seventh Chapter. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām [Bg 7.5].

[Besides this inferior nature, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine, which are all living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe.]

Parā-prakṛti and aparā-prakṛti. The aparā-prakṛti is this material energy, and the parā-prakṛti is spiritual energy. There are two kinds of prakṛti. So that spiritual... Because Kṛṣṅa is spiritual whole, so His spiritual energy, prakṛtiṁ svām, that internal potency, or the spiritual energy... So His body is spiritual. His body is not material. Therefore avyayātmā, it is imperishable. These things are to be understood. Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā [Bg 4.6].

[Although I am unborn and My transcendental body never deteriorates, and although I am the Lord of all sentient beings, I still appear in every millennium in My original transcendental form.]

Again He says ātma-māyayā. He's not forced to take birth by the external energy. He appears by His own energy, internal energy, or spiritual energy. Therefore He's avyayātmā. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san.

Still... We should not take Kṛṣṅa as one of us, because He is bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. Just like a crude example may be given: When there was independence movement, Mahatma Gandhi went to jail, and many, many big leaders. But there are other criminals also, pickpockets and thieves and murderers. If they would think, "Now Mahatma Gandhi has come into jail. We are the same. We are the same," no. Similarly, when Kṛṣṅa comes, if the rascals and fools think that "Kṛṣṅa is also like us, as we have come into this material world," they are fools. No. We are forced. Just like criminal, a pickpocket or a thief, a rogue, a murderer, he is forced to... So of course, here, Mahatma Gandhi was also forced. But that is not the case. Because He is the controller. Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. He... The material energy cannot force Kṛṣṅa. Because He's īśvaraḥ. He's the controller. A controller cannot be forced. Just like in the British constitution it is said that "A king can do no wrong." Even king appears to do..., have done something wrong, he does not come within the law. Similarly, although Kṛṣṅa has killed so many demons, does not mean that He's criminal. He is still the bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. He's still. That is to be understood.

Kṛṣṅa, superficially He has done so many things which is sinful for others. Just like this is... These are very, the great subject matters. This was questioned by Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when He danced with the girls of Vrajabhūmi, rāsa dance, so Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired from Śukadeva Gosvāmī that "Kṛṣṅa, who came to establish the principles of religion, how He danced with girls and wives of others?" That was explained that tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya [SB 10.33.29]. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. Kṛṣṅa danced with others' wife or sister or other girls. They were all girls. They came at mid of..., midnight to dance with Him. But they were also not material. That is spiritual. It requires little brain to understand. So Parīkṣit Mahārāja... Śukadeva Gosvāmī explained that these things should not be considered by the conditioned soul. They should not even dream of this. It is a different thing. And if you think that Kṛṣṅa has a fault because He danced with others' wives, so he explained that tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. Tejīyasām... The... A thing which is very, very powerful, he is not contaminated. That is the conclusion. Just like the sun. The sun soaks water from urine. We pass urine somewhere, and the sun soaks the water, the urine. That... That is poisonous. That is infectious. But that sun does not become infected, because he's so powerful. If that is possible for ordinary, material things, how much powerful is Kṛṣṅa?

So we should not discuss the rāsa-līlā generally. Because unless one is advanced in spiritual consciousness and Kṛṣṅa consciousness, they should not try to understand what is rāsa-līlā. It is very confidential. It is meant for the liberated souls, those who are liberated by devotional service. Actually, those who are engaged in devotional service, they are liberated. They are not within the material world.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṅa bhakti-yogena sevate sa guṅān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg 14.26]

[One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.]

So this rāsa-līlā is to relished by the paramahaṁsas, liberated souls. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt [SB 10.1.4]. Vāstavaṁ vedyam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṅām [SB 1.1.2].

[Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhāgavata Purāṅa propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyāsadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhāgavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart.]

Paramo nirmatsarāṅām. Vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra. So we should not jump. First of all we should read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. Try to understand Kṛṣṅa, what is Kṛṣṅa. Then we shall be fit to understand what is Bhāgavatam. The last conclusion of Bhagavad-gītā is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṅaṁ vraja [Bg 18.66].

[Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.]

If we can surrender to Kṛṣṅa wholeheartedly, then we become eligible to understand what is Kṛṣṅa. That is the... Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg 18.55].

[One can understand the Supreme Personality as He is only by devotional service. And when one is in full consciousness of the Supreme Lord by such devotion, he can enter into the kingdom of God.]

We, if we are advanced in devotional service, then we become fit to understand Kṛṣṅa.

But still, just to make us fit to understand Kṛṣṅa, Kṛṣṅa is describing Himself, what He is. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. He comes with His own energy. He's not forced by the external energy. We are forced. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṅāni guṅaiḥ karmāṅi sarvaśaḥ [Bg 3.27].

[The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.]

We, as we develop different modes of nature by the association of this external energy, we get our particular body. Karmaṅā daiva-netreṅa jantur dehopapatti [SB 3.31.1].

[The Personality of Godhead said: Under the supervision of the Supreme Lord and according to the result of his work, the living entity, the soul, is made to enter into the womb of a woman through the particle of male semen to assume a particular type of body.]

But Kṛṣṅa does not do so. We have to first of all understand it that Kṛṣṅa is not forced by karma. We are forced by karma. Therefore we have got different bodies. But Kṛṣṅa is not... Although He appears in different incarnation... Keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra, keśava dhṛta-kūrma-śarīra, keśava dhṛta-varāha-śarīra, nṛsiṁha-śarīra. So Kṛṣṅa, when He comes as a boar incarnation, He's not ordinary hog and pig. These things are to be understood. He is the bhūtānām īśvaraḥ, in whatever form He likes to come. That is His pleasure. Ātma-māyayā. He comes in His ātma-māyayā, not by force by the external energy. That is the conclusion. [pause] If you read the purport...

Pradyumna: "The Lord has spoken about the peculiarity of His birth. Although He may appear like an ordinary person, He remembers everything of His many, many past births."

Prabhupāda: That is the test, that He has already explained that He remembers. Therefore His appearance, disappearance, birth is not ordinary. That is to be understood. Otherwise, how He can remember? We cannot remember. We do not know what we were in our last birth, or millions of years ago, although we are also eternal. But we do not remember. Therefore there is difference between Kṛṣṅa's birth and our birth.

When Kṛṣṅa appeared as the son of Devakī and Vasudeva, He appeared before them as four-handed Nārāyaṅa. Kṛṣṅa did not come from the womb of Devakī. You have, most of you have read in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam His appearance. He appeared before them as four-handed Nārāyaṅa. Then Devakī prayed, "My Lord, You have come. Kaṁsa is now eager to kill You. As soon as..." As a mother, she's speaking simply the truth, that "Kaṁsa is now eager to kill You. As soon as he will see You four-handed, immediately he will kill You." Because as woman, and simple woman... The four-handed Nārāyaṅa cannot be killed, but she was thinking that "Because You, now You have appeared as Nārāyaṅa, four-handed, You'll be immediately killed. Kindly become two-handed." So immediately Kṛṣṅa became two-handed. Therefore Kṛṣṅa accepted to be an ordinary child. But He's not ordinary child. Go on.

Pradyumna: "He remembers everything of His many, many past births, whereas a common man cannot remember what he has done even a few hours before."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difference between Kṛṣṅa and ourself. We do not remember what we have done a few hours ago, what to speak of millions of years ago. But we take our birth because we are eternal. We have taken many births. That is the difference between Kṛṣṅa's birth and our birth. Then?

Pradyumna: "If someone is asked what he did exactly at the same time one day earlier, it would be very difficult for a common man to answer immediately. He would surely have to dredge his memory to recall what he was doing exactly at the same time one day before. And yet, men often dare claim to be God, or Kṛṣṅa. One should not be misled by such meaningless claims."

Prabhupāda: Yes. These, considering these verses from the Bhagavad-gītā, we should not foolishly accept these so-called cheaters as God. That is not very nice thing. These are the symptoms of God, how He takes His birth. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg 4.9].

[One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.]

We should try to understand what is God. We should not take so cheaply that "Here is God incarnation. Here is..." No. That is misleading. Then?

Pradyumna: "And then again the Lord explains His prakṛti, or His form. Prakṛti means nature as well as svarūpa, or one's own form. The Lord says that He appears in His own body. He does not change His body as the common living entity changes from one body to another. The conditioned soul may have one kind of body in the present birth, but he has a different body in the next birth."

Prabhupāda: Here, our body... Now we have got human body. So next, next life it may be a demigod's body, or it may be cat's body, dog's body. The body changes. Kṛṣṅa does not... Avyayātmā. That is the difference. Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the material world a living entity has no fixed body, but transmigrates from one body to another. The Lord, however, does not do so. Whenever He appears, He does so in the same original body by His internal potency. In other words, Kṛṣṅa appears in this material world in His original eternal form, with two hands holding a flute. He appears exactly in His eternal body, uncontaminated by this material world. Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is Lord of the universe, it still appears that He..."

Prabhupāda: How He can be contaminated by the modes of material nature? Because Kṛṣṅa says that,

daivī hy eṣā guṅamayī mama māyā duratyayā mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg 7.14]

[This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.]

If somebody surrenders to Kṛṣṅa, he becomes free from the touch of māyā. Simply by surrendering to Kṛṣṅa, if one becomes liberated from the clutches of māyā, how Kṛṣṅa can be under the clutches of māyā? This is foolishness. Those who say that "Kṛṣṅa also accepts this material body," that, that is not the fact.

And another thing is, either the material energy or the spiritual energy, both are Kṛṣṅa's energy. So even He appears like that He has accepted the material body, that material body does not act as material body. He can change matter into spirit and spirit into matter, because He is the controller, īśvaraḥ. Bhūtānām īśvaraḥ. He can change that. Just like electrician: he can change a refrigerator into a heater, and a heater into a refrigerator, because the same power, electricity, is working. He knows the art, how to change it. But we cannot do that. That is the difference between Kṛṣṅa and ourselves. Hmm. Then?

Pradyumna: "Although He appears in the same transcendental body and is Lord of the universe, it still appears that He takes His birth like an ordinary living entity. Despite the fact Lord Kṛṣṅa grows from childhood to boyhood, and from boyhood to youth, astonishingly enough, He never ages beyond youth. At the time of the Battle of Kurukṣetra, He had many grandchildren at home, or, in other words, He had sufficiently aged by material calculations. Still, He looked just like a young man, twenty or twenty-five years old. We never see a picture of Kṛṣṅa in old age because He never grows old like us, although He is the oldest person in the whole creation, past, present and future. Neither His body nor His intelligence ever deteriorates or changes. Therefore it is clear that in spite of His being in this material world, He is the same unborn, eternal form of bliss and knowledge, changeless in His transcendental body and intelligence. Factually, His appearance and disappearance is like the sun's rising, moving before us and then disappearing from our eyesight. When the sun is out of sight, we think that the sun has set, and when the sun is before our eyes, we think that the sun is on the horizon."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṅa does not appear or disappear. Our eyesight changes. Just like we are looking through the window, one horse race is going on. When the horse comes before the window, we can see. And when it passes through..., from our eyesight, we think that horse is no longer existing. But the horse is running. This example should be taken. Kṛṣṅa is called nitya-līlā. He is taking His birth, He is fighting in the Battle of Kurukṣetra, He's dancing with the gopīs. That is going on eternally in either of the so many, innumerable universes. So the same time... Just like the change of time. Now it is nine o'clock in the watch. Now, this nine o'clock, this is now night. The morning nine o'clock is still existing somewhere. Similarly, Kṛṣṅa's līlā, Kṛṣṅa's pastime, is going on. Everything is going on at the same moment. Therefore His līlā is called nitya-līlā. Nitya means eternal. It does not change. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Actually, the sun is always in its fixed position, but owing to our defective, insufficient senses, we calculate the appearance and disappearance of the sun in the sky. And because His appearance and disappearance are completely different from that of any ordinary common living entity, it is evident that He is eternal blissful knowledge by His internal potency, and He is never contaminated by material nature. The Vedas also confirm that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is unborn. Yet, He still appears to take His birth in multi-manifestations. The Vedic supplementary literatures also confirm that even though the Lord appears to be taking His birth, He is still without change of body. In the Bhāgavatam, He appears before His mother as Nārāyaṅa with four hands and the decorations of the six kinds of full opulences. His appearance in His original, eternal form is His causeless mercy, according to the Viśvakośa dictionary. The Lord is conscious of all of His previous appearances and disappearances, but a common living entity forgets everything about his past body as soon as he gets another body. He is the Lord of all living entities because He performs wonderful and superhuman activities while He is on this earth. Therefore the Lord is always the same Absolute Truth, and is without differentiation between His form and self or between His quality and body. The question may now be raised as to why the Lord appears and disappears in His form. This is explained in the next verse."

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṅa. [end]