Morning walk

Morning Walk

Chandobhai: ...proktam adhidaivaṁ kim ucyate.

adhiyajñaḥ kathaṁ ko 'tra dehe 'smin madhusūdana prayāṅa-kāle ca kathaṁ jñeyo 'si niyatātmabhiḥ [Bg 8.2]

Very important.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these are the questions. So the answer will be there.

Chandobhai: Yes, answers. Akṣaraṁ brahma paramaṁ svabhāvo 'dhyātmam ucyate [Bg 8.3].

[The Supreme Lord said, The indestructible, transcendental living entity is called Brahman, and his eternal nature is called the self. Action pertaining to the development of these material bodies is called karma, or fruitive activities.]

Dr. Patel: Paraṁ Brahman is akṣara.

Prabhupāda: Akṣara? First of all try to understand. Akṣara... Akṣara means "that does not fall down." That is akṣara. Akṣara and kṣara. The spiritual world is akṣara, and this material world is kṣara. So the living entities or God in the spiritual world, they are all akṣara. And in the material world we are all kṣara. Therefore akṣaram paramaṁ brahma. The Supreme...

Chandobhai: Svabhāvo 'dhyātmam.

Prabhupāda: Svabhāvam.

Dr. Patel: Sva means "own."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Bhāva means...? Bhāva [Gujarati]? Essence, essence.

Prabhupāda: Sva-bhāvaḥ means nature.

Dr. Patel: Nature. Sva-bhāvaḥ...

Chandobhai: Adhyātmam.

Dr. Patel: Adhi-ātma. That is the...

Chandobhai: That is real bhāva.

Prabhupāda: Adhyātma. Adhyātma means bodily and mentally.

Chandobhai: Ah, bodily and mentally, yes.

Dr. Patel: Adhyātma? Bodily and mentally?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Mentally. Spiritually... Inner existence.

Prabhupāda: No. Adhyātmam. Adhyātma. Ātma means body, mind and the soul, but here adhyātma means the body and the mind. That is material nature. The body and mind is made of material nature.

Chandobhai: Body and mind. Yes. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...creation.

Chandobhai: Creation, yes.

Prabhupāda: So by working with the body, we create another creation.

Dr. Patel: Bhūta-bhāvodbhava... [Bg 8.3]

Prabhupāda: Just like now I am human being. Next life I may be a demigod, I may be a dog. That I, creation. That is sarga.

Dr. Patel: That is karma.

Chandobhai: That is his karma. That is his karma.

Dr. Patel: What is karma?

Prabhupāda: Karma, anyone can understand. As you... Fruitive activities. You do something and enjoy the good or bad result. That is karma. You do something, either good or bad. So the result you'll have to suffer or enjoy.

Dr. Patel: But here is a very big question. I'm very sorry to... Who does the karma? Unless and until we have got ahaṅkāra in that, then...

Prabhupāda: The ahaṅkāra is there, false ahaṅkāra. You are thinking that "I am kṣatriya." That is false ahaṅkāra.

Dr. Patel: That is what I said. So doer is that. Ahaṅkāra is the doer.

Prabhupāda: That ahaṅkāra...

Dr. Patel: Then it is karma. Not otherwise.

Prabhupāda: As soon as you come to the material world, the ahaṅkāra is there, that "I... I belong to India," "I belong to America," "I belong to brāhmaṅa community," "...kṣatriya..." The ahaṅkāra is there. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. So long this ahaṅkāra is there, "I am this, I am that," all bodily concept.

Chandobhai: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg 3.27].

[The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.]

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: But this karma. Here is the question of karma.

Prabhupāda: The karma... Karma means he is doing, but every, everyone is doing in his own way. Nobody..., nobody cares to understand the instruction of Kṛṣṅa. Everyone is doing in his own way. That is karma.

Dr. Patel: Kiṁ karma kim akarmeti kavayo... [Bg 4.16].

[Even the intelligent are bewildered in determining what is action and what is inaction. Now I shall explain to you what action is, knowing which you shall be liberated from all sins.]

Prabhupāda: Ah, that will be explained. Karma, akarma, yes. [break] ...the same, material. Kṣara. Kṣara bhāvaḥ. That is perishable.

Chandobhai: Perishable.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Puruṣaś cādhidaivatam.

Prabhupāda: Puruṣa. Puruṣa means the soul.

Chandobhai: Soul. Jīva.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the jīva. Puruṣa adhidaivatam. Then?

Chandobhai: Adhiyajño 'ham evātra [Bg 8.4].

[Physical nature is known to be endlessly mutable. The universe is the cosmic form of the Supreme Lord, and I am that Lord represented as the Supersoul, dwelling in the heart of every embodied being.]

Prabhupāda: Adhiyajñaḥ means Paramātmā.

Dr. Patel: Adhidaiva means jīva.

Prabhupāda: No.

Chandobhai: No, no. Adhidaiva, puruṣa.

Prabhupāda: Adhidaiva, jīva. Adhiyajña, Paramātmā.

Dr. Patel: That is what I said.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Adhiyajña is... [break]

Prabhupāda: Karma means which produces result, and akarma means which does not produce result. So that they do not know.

Chandobhai: And the vikarma.

Prabhupāda: Just like these activities, devotional service, it does not produce any result. And the ordinary man... Suppose they are also selling books. An ordinary man also selling books, it appears to be the same. But they are not creating any result. But ordinary bookseller, he's creating his result, pāpa-puṅya. That is karma and akarma. And vikarma. Vikarma means against the...

Chandobhai: Vikṛta karma.

Prabhupāda: Yes, vikṛta.

Chandobhai: Vikṛta, against śāstra.

Dr. Patel: Although the actions which are prohibitory...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Dr. Patel: ...and if we do it, it is vikarma.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Adhiyajño 'ham evātra dehe deha-bhṛtāṁ vara. Īśvara, īśvara.

Prabhupāda: Īśvara.

Dr. Patel: That means īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ... [Bg 18.61]. [break]

[The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.]

Prabhupāda: ...important thing, mām, Kṛṣṅa. They practice it, always remembering Kṛṣṅa. Then at the end of life, ante nārāyaṅa-smṛti. That is perfection of life. But how one will remember ante, then? There is a verse of... Just wait.

Chandobhai: Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran... [Bg 8.6].

[Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.]

Prabhupāda: No. Just wait. There is a verse by Kulaśekhara. Kulaśekhara. Adyaiva viśatu me mānasa-rāja-haṁsaḥ [MM 33], he says.

[O Lord Kṛṣṅa, at this moment let the royal swan of my mind enter the tangled stems of the lotus of Your feet. How will it be possible for me to remember You at the time of death, when my throat will be choked up with mucus, bile, and air?]

He says, "My Lord..." The idea is that "Now I am in quite fit order. So let me remember You and die. Because at the end of... At the end of... Kapha-pitta-vāyu, there will be disorder. Smaraṅaṁ kutas te. At that time, it is..."

Dr. Patel: How can there be the smaraṅa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Therefore, my Lord, I pray that adyaiva, immediately, because now I am fit."

Dr. Patel: Right now.

Prabhupāda: Right now. "Now I am fit. So let me remember You and die." So one must be fit. You see, even in daily, in dream, while sleeping, we forget so many things. Everything we forget.

Chandobhai: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So at the time of death, when everything is disordered, nothing is in order, unless one is very strongly practiced, how he can remember?

Dr. Patel: My father spoke oṁ, and he stopped breathing and...

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Oṁ, oṁ ity eka... That is...

Dr. Patel: Then he stopped breathing.

Prabhupāda: Then he practiced. That means he practiced. Therefore, either you practice oṁ or Hare Kṛṣṅa, that is all right.

Dr. Patel: Whatever we do of our whole, all our whole, all day of life, it comes at the end. That is why you must continue to do for the life.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc Ādi 17.31].

[One who thinks himself lower than the grass, who is more tolerant than a tree, and who does not expect personal honor yet is always prepared to give all respect to others can very easily always chant the holy name of the Lord.]

Always Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa... In this way practicing, if somebody is fortunate enough, he can remember.

Dr. Patel: Eṣā brāhmī sthitiḥ pārtha na... Sthitvāsyām anta-kāle 'pi brahma-nirvāṅam ṛcchati [Bg 2.72].

Prabhupāda: So...

Dr. Patel: Therefore at the last moment you... But you can't get that last moment in this position, because you have, whole life, you have...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have spoiled your life simply in material activities, how you can remember?

Dr. Patel: But even if you are doing material activity by your body, and by your mental activities you are bhaja kṛṣṅa...

Prabhupāda: But you are under the body. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṅāni [Bg 3.27].

[The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.]

Body and mind is working. Unless you practice to be above body and mind... That is bhakti-yoga. Māṁ cāvyabhicāriṅi-bhakti-yoga..., sa guṅān samatītya [Bg 14.26].

[One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down in any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman.]

You cannot expect that you go on doing all these material activities and at the time of death you'll remember Kṛṣṅa. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: That can't be done.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Chandobhai: Should be a real concentrated difference

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: When you do the work, you should be a real concentration.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Chandobhai: Therefore there is no... Because your attachment is more to the...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: ...reserves of that...

Prabhupāda: Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā... [Bg 4.10].

[Being freed from attachment, fear and anger, being fully absorbed in Me and taking refuge in Me, many, many persons in the past became purified by knowledge of Me—and thus they all attained transcendental love for Me.]

Chandobhai: Mad-bhaktaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Man-mayā mad-aśritāḥ. Unless he takes shelter of Kṛṣṅa, these things are not possible. Simply by talking it is not possible. There must be practice.

Chandobhai: Acaropanam.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: [Sanskrit]

Chandobhai: Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaram bhāvaṁ tyajanty ante... [Bg 8.6]

[Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.]

[break]

Prabhupāda: There is a risk. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi. If you are thinking of dog, then you become a dog.

Dr. Patel: Just as Bharata did it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is example. Even Bharata Mahārāja, such a great personality, simply due to little affection to a cub of deer, he became a deer. So these people are attached to so many things. So how much risk is there at the time of death they do not understand. Therefore Kṛṣṅa says, mām ekam.

Chandobhai: Tasmāt sarveṣu kāleṣu mām eva... [Bg 8.7].

[Therefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Kṛṣṅa and at the same time carry out your prescribed duty of fighting. With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed on Me, you will attain Me without doubt.]

Prabhupāda: Mām ekam: Then you...

Dr. Patel: Therefore every time, every moment...

Prabhupāda: That is... This is stressed. If you...

Dr. Patel: Mām anusmara yudhya ca [Bg 8.7].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Yudhya means "do your activity."

Prabhupāda: Yes. But always think. Just like these people are..., these, they are doing that. They are doing their duty. Somebody's going to there, somebody's going there, somebody's there. But their chanting is there. That is not avoided. That is not avoided. Sadā tad bhāva-bhāvitaḥ [Bg 8.6].

[Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail.]

Then Kṛṣṅa favors, "Yes, he has done his best."

Chandobhai: Tasmāt sarveṣu kāleṣu... [Bg 8.7].

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Dr. Patel: Yudhya ca. Yudhya ca.

Chandobhai: Mayy arpita-mano buddhir mām evaiśyasy asaṁśayaḥ [Bg 8.7].

Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaṁśayaḥ. Because his mind is in Kṛṣṅa, it doesn't matter he's fighting. Fighting is superfluous. Real thing is mind is in Kṛṣṅa.

Dr. Patel: That is bhramara-nyāya.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Bhramara-nyāya. Because the small ant... [break]

Chandobhai: ...nānya-gāminā.

Dr. Patel: Abhyāsa-yoga, by... We explained that...

Prabhupāda: One... Abhyāsa-yoga... You practice this. Therefore we say, "You must chant at least sixteen rounds." This is abhyāsa-yoga. When one becomes attached to chanting, he doesn't require to be under discipline. But so long he's not practiced, he must be under... Just like a boy, he's instructed by the teacher, "You must give me at least four page handwriting." So four page handwriting means writing, writing, he'll be practiced. So therefore these are the practice. You must...

Chandobhai: Nānya-gāminā.

Prabhupāda: Nānya-gāminā. Because cetāḥ is..., mind is very flickering. So unless you fix up your mind under some regulative principle, then it is not possible. [indistinct] Everyone becomes paramahaṁsa: "Oh, I am now advanced. I do not require all these regulative principles."

Dr. Patel: What is paramahaṁsa?

Prabhupāda: Paramahaṁsa means he's above. Paramo nirmatsarānām [SB 1.1.2].

[Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motivated, this Bhāgavata Purāṅa propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyāsadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhāgavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart.]

That is paramahaṁsa.

Chandobhai: Paramaṁ puruṣaṁ divyaṁ yāti pārthānucintayan [Bg 8.8].

[He who meditates on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Pārtha [Arjuna], is sure to reach Me.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramaṁ puruṣaṁ divyaṁ yāti.

Dr. Patel: Pārthānucintayan. By thinking about... [break] ...there's a mind set.

Prabhupāda: Smartavyaḥ satato viṣṅuḥ. Therefore one has to think of Viṣṅu always, twenty-four hours, in so many ways.

Chandobhai: Kaviṁ purāṅam anuśāsitāram [Bg 8.9].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Aṅor aṅīyān anusmared yaḥ, sarvasya dhātāram acintya-rūpam...

Prabhupāda: This is the description of the param.

Chandobhai: Āditya-varṅaṁ tamasaḥ parastāt. Prayāṅa-kāle manasācalena...[Bg 8.10]. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...varṅa. That is... Āditya-varṅa means self-effulgent. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṅḍa-koṭi [Bs 5.40].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose effulgence is the source of the nondifferentiated Brahman mentioned in the Upaniṣads, being differentiated from the infinity of glories of the mundane universe appears as the indivisible, infinite, limitless, truth.]

That is āditya-varṅa. Āditya is never in darkness.

Chandobhai: Prayāṅa-kāle manasācalena...

Dr. Patel: Prayāṅa-kāle manasācalena. Acalena.

Prabhupāda: Again... Acalena. Acalena means he has been practiced to fix his mind to Kṛṣṅa. Then, if he's successful, the prayāṅa-kāle, he must remember.

Chandobhai: Yes, yes. Here. Bhaktyā yukto yoga-balena caiva.

Prabhupāda: Yoga. Bhaktyā. That is the bhakti-yoga. Not otherwise.

Chandobhai: Bhruvor madhye prāṅam āveśya samyak [Bg 8.10].

Prabhupāda: Ah. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. [break] ...they meditate all the life, the so-called yogīs. Something impersonal... Some light, like this, like that. Light may be also, if that Brahman light. But here it is specifically mentioned...

Dr. Patel: Especially spontaneously you feel some light...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, Brahman light. But the Brahman light, according to Bhāgavata philosophy, even one enters in the Brahman effulgence, still he falls down. Still he falls down. Arūhya kṛcchreṅa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādhṛta-yusmad-aṅghrayaḥ [SB 10.2.32].

[[Someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet.]

Unless one is fixed up in the personal form of the Lord, there is chance of falling down. They fall down actually. We have seen so many sannyāsīs. Just like at the present moment, Karpatri. He's now busy in politics.

Dr. Patel: One man married in America, some sannyāsī.

Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, Citrabhanu.

Dr. Patel: Citrabhanu, or... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...one is God.

Bhāgavata: Citrabhanu.

Chandobhai: Citrabhanu, yes.

Bhāgavata: Brahmānanda Swami met him in Mombasa, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was speaking all this nonsense. Then he went to America... [break]

Chandobhai: ...icchanto brahmacaryaṁ caranti [Bg 8.11].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: Tat te padaṁ saṅgraheṅa pravakṣye. Now He will tell us in saṅgraha...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Chandobhai: ...that padam.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: That is Goloka dhāma.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṅa. Yes. Yad akṣaraṁ veda-vido vadanti [Bg 8.11]. That means impersonal. Veda-vido, one who knows Vedas.

Chandobhai: Viśanti yad yatayo vīta-rāgāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Chandobhai: You see, now He tells all the practice of the yoga.

sarva-dvārāṅi saṁyamya mano hṛdi-nirudhya ca mūrdhny ādhāyātmanaḥ prāṅam āsthito yoga-dhāraṅām [Bg 8.12]

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's... Artificially you cannot saṁyama. If your mind is not fixed up, artificially you cannot make. Therefore Kṛṣṅa says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad gata... [Bg 6.47].

[And of all yogīs, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all.]

One who is thinking of Kṛṣṅa, he is perfect yogī.

Chandobhai: But he has to be yogī at that time, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarva-dvārāṅi saṁyamya. Just like these boys, they do not go to see cinema, they do not go to restaurant. This is sarva-dvārāṅi saṁyamya. You see? They do not go to anywhere except in the temple. They do not talk anything nonsense, except Kṛṣṅa. This is sarva-dvārāṅi saṁyamya.

Dr. Patel: They should not talk anything else except Kṛṣṅa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vacaṁsi vaikuṅṭha-guṅānuvarṅane [SB 9.4.18].

[Mahārāja Ambarīṣa always engaged his mind in meditating upon the lotus feet of Kṛṣṅa, his words in describing the glories of the Lord, his hands in cleansing the Lord's temple, and his ears in hearing the words spoken by Kṛṣṅa or about Kṛṣṅa. He engaged his eyes in seeing the Deity of Kṛṣṅa, Kṛṣṅa's temples and Kṛṣṅa's places like Mathurā and Vṛndāvana, he engaged his sense of touch in touching the bodies of the Lord's devotees, he engaged his sense of smell in smelling the fragrance of tulasī offered to the Lord, and he engaged his tongue in tasting the Lord's prasāda. He engaged his legs in walking to the holy places and temples of the Lord, his head in bowing down before the Lord, and all his desires in serving the Lord, twenty-four hours a day. Indeed, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa never desired anything for his own sense gratification. He engaged all his senses in devotional service, in various engagements related to the Lord. This is the way to increase attachment for the Lord and be completely free from all material desires.]

So this is sam... Unless you give engagement to the senses, proper, how you can control it? Your eyes want to see beautiful man or woman. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. But when you are captivated by seeing the Deity of Kṛṣṅa and Rādhā, then it's..., that eyes being engaged otherwise is stopped. That has been explained by Prabodānanda Sarasvatī,

Durdantendriya-kāla-sarpa- paṭalī-protkhāta-daṁstrāyate [Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5]

Protkhāta-damstrāyate. Protkhāta means extracted, the poison tree. The poison tree of the tee..., uh, teeth of the snake is dangerous. Now, here is a snake. Everyone is afraid, "Oh, snake! Snake! Snake!" But if everyone knows that his poison teeth have been taken away, then there is no more danger. Similarly, these indriyas have been compared with the kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. But...

Dr. Patel: What do you call?

Prabhupāda: Kāla, kāla-sarpa means the dead-poisonous snake, kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Everyone knows. As soon as you use some indriya, there is some dangerous result. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpanā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ [SB 7.9.45].

[Sex life is compared to the rubbing of two hands to relieve an itch. Gṛhamedhīs, so-called gṛhasthas who have no spiritual knowledge, think that this itching is the greatest platform of happiness, although actually it is a source of distress. The kṛpaṅas, the fools who are just the opposite of brāhmaṅas, are not satisfied by repeated sensuous enjoyment. Those who are dhīra, however, who are sober and who tolerate this itching, are not subjected to the sufferings of fools and rascals.]

Take for... [break]

Dr. Patel: Oṁ is God or Kṛṣṅa.

Prabhupāda: Oṁ, yes. Kṛṣṅa says, praṅavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. Praṅavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu.

Chandobhai: That is oṁ in that way.

Prabhupāda: Because oṁ means Kṛṣṅa. That is mām.

Dr. Patel: I told you.

Prabhupāda: When one chanting oṁ, if he remembers just the oṁ is Kṛṣṅa, then he's successful. Mām. Oṁ ity ekākṣaraṁ...

Chandobhai: Oṁ ity ekākṣaraṁ brahma.

Dr. Patel: It is ekākṣara brahma.

Chandobhai: Vyāharan mām.

Prabhupāda: Vyāharan mām. If he knows...

Dr. Patel: Vyāharan mām anusmara [Bg 8.7].

Prabhupāda: Anusmara. If he knows that oṁkāra is Kṛṣṅa, then he's successful. If he thinks that oṁkāra is something else than Kṛṣṅa, then he's not successful.

Chandobhai:

ananya-cetāḥ satataṁ yo māṁ smarati nityaśaḥ tasyāhaṁ sulabhaḥ pārtha nitya-yuktasya yoginaḥ [Bg 8.14]

Prabhupāda: So there is no need of doing this or that. Simply always remember Kṛṣṅa. That is the conclusion.

Chandobhai:

mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ [Bg 8.15]

[After attaining Me, the great souls, who are yogīs in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.]

Prabhupāda: That is saṁsiddhi. They are mahātmās, those who are always remembering Kṛṣṅa. They are mahātmās. Not by the red dress. No, that is not mahātmā. Even in white dress you can become. If you always chant and remember Kṛṣṅa, you become mahātmā.

Chandobhai: Now there is a higher philosophy: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg 8.16],

[From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again.]

mām upetya punar janma... [Bg 8.15]. No?

Dr. Patel: Mām eti janardana.

Prabhupāda: No.

Chandobhai: Mām evaiti kaunteya punar janma na vidyate.

Prabhupāda: Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ... Within this material world, these persons who are doing pious activities, they are promoted to the higher planetary system. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka—that is the highest—where you can get millions of years your life duration, but still, kṣīṅe puṅye martya-lokaṁ viṣanti [Bg 9.21], you have to come back.

[When they have thus enjoyed heavenly sense pleasure, they return to this mortal planet again. Thus, through the Vedic principles, they achieve only flickering happiness.]

Chandobhai: Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṅo viduḥ [Bg 8.17], rātriṁ...

[By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahmā's one day. And such also is the duration of his night.]

Prabhupāda: Now He explaining what is Brahmaloka. That one day of Brahmā, you cannot calculate. And still, you have to die.

Dr. Patel: Twelve hundred yugas is called one brahmā...

Chandobhai: So our hundred years is nothing for...

Prabhupāda: It is nothing.

Chandobhai: It is a moment only.

Dr. Patel: Twelve hundred yugas.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Not twelve hundred yugas. One thousand yugas. One thousand. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṅo viduḥ [Bg 8.17].

Dr. Patel: Sahasra-yuga means four yugas, [Hindi] like that...

Prabhupāda: That... Four yugas multiplied by one thousand.

Dr. Patel: By one thousand.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Four thousand.

Prabhupāda: So four yuga means forty-three lakhs of years. Now, add three zeroes. Forty-three lakhs of years, add three zeroes. Then how many?

Dr. Patel: About four, about... Car...

Prabhupāda: Eh? Forty-three lakhs, as...

Dr. Patel: Car ardha...

Prabhupāda: Forty-three, eight zeroes.

Dr. Patel: Car... [Gujarati]

Prabhupāda: This is Brahmā's twelve days, uh, twelve hours.

Dr. Patel: Rātri. [Gujarati]

Chandobhai: Why not... There's a little question to ask: What are the Pitṛloka, Martyaloka and this...?

Prabhupāda: They are planets.

Chandobhai: And the Brahmaloka and all the...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are different... Just like Candraloka, Sūryaloka, Vāyuloka.

Chandobhai: What is that Pitṛloka actually?

Prabhupāda: Pitṛloka means the... There is a..., called a Pitṛloka.

Chandobhai: But then in the Pitrloka is it maybe that, there may be remembrances of the [indistinct] and all these things or...

Prabhupāda: No, these are all material.

Dr. Patel: Pitṛloka [Gujarati]. They are all your past pitṛs.

Chandobhai: No, let [indistinct] from him.

Prabhupāda: Pitṝn yānti... Devān yānti... What is that? Deva... Pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vrataḥ [Bg 9.25].

[Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me.]

So those who are just like fond of performing śraddhās, karma-kāṅḍa, they go to the Pitṛloka.

Dr. Patel: We are all, I mean, ordained to perform śraddhā, all Vaiṣṅavas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, Vaiṣṅavas do not do so.

Dr. Patel: We are... We, all are, all of us, are we not doing...

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: ...śraddhā ceremony...

Prabhupāda: The Vaiṣṅava, Vaiṣṅava has no duty except serving Kṛṣṅa. That's all.

Dr. Patel: That's right. But a Vaiṣṅava family...

Prabhupāda: No.

Chandobhai: Gṛhasthas, gṛhasthas.

Dr. Patel: Gṛhasthas.

Prabhupāda: He, whatever he may be. That is stated. That is stated that...

Dr. Patel: Only Jains can do.

Prabhupāda: That is stated that pitṛṅām. No, what is that verse? Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛnam-pitṛṅām [SB 11.5.41].

[O King, one who has given up all material duties and has taken full shelter of the lotus feet of Mukunda, who offers shelter to all, is not indebted to the demigods, great sages, ordinary living beings, relatives, friends, mankind or even one's forefathers who have passed away. Since all such classes of living entities are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, one who has surrendered to the Lord's service has no need to serve such persons separately.]

We are... Just like we are indebted to our forefathers, family, similarly we are indebted to devas, the demigods. Just like the sun is supplying light. So we are indebted. Deva, ṛṣi, to big great, big, big, saintly ṛṣis. They have given us the śāstras. Devarṣi, devarṣi bhūtā... Bhūtā, ordinary living entities. Just like you are taking milk from the cows. And another, horse, is giving me service. So devarṣi-bhūtā apta, relatives. We take so much help from relatives.

Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛnam, ordinary human being. Pitṛṅām: and the pitṛs. So we are debted to so many. If you want to clear up the debts, it will take millions of births. [laughter] So devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛnam-pitṛṅāṁ nayaṁ kiṅkara na ṛni ca rājan [SB 11.5.41]. This man is neither servant nor indebted. Who? Sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṅaṁ mukundam: one who has taken... That Kṛṣṅa says, that "You just surrender to Me. I will protect you." So if he does not do anything else... One may think that he is being entangled in sinful activities because he does not do other duties. But Kṛṣṅa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg 18.66].

[Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.]

So one who has taken shelter, full shelter unto Kṛṣṅa, he doesn't require to do any so-called social, political and other duties. He doesn't require.

Dr. Patel: And here He means... He's about those pralaya. Bhūta-grāmaḥ sa evāyaṁ bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg 8.19].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Rātry-āgame avaśaḥ pārtha prabhavaty ahar-āgame.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. When we...

Dr. Patel: Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ... [Bg 8.20].

Prabhupāda: That is the spiritual world. That is the spiritual...

Dr. Patel: Yaḥ sa sarveṣu bhūteṣu naśyatsu na vinaśyati. That is pūrṅa brahma.

Prabhupāda: That is spiritual world. That is spiritual world, beyond this material world. So they have no information what is that spiritual world. Therefore it is said that... Here it is going on, pralaya, anya pralaya. During Brahmā's night, there is dissolution. Again creation. And when Brahmā dies, there is another dissolution. That is going on. But paras tasmāt, above this creation and dissolution, there is another nature. That is sanātana. That is eternal.

Dr. Patel: Yaḥ sa sarveṣu bhūteṣu naśyatsu na vinaśyati...

Prabhupāda: Ah, so why the...

Dr. Patel: ...avyakto 'kṣara ity uktas tam āhuḥ paramāṁ gatim [Bg 8.211].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Yaṁ prāpya na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg 15.6].

[That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to this material world.]

Prabhupāda: Paramaṁ mama. Now, again, He's come to mama. "That dhāma is mama, Mine."

Dr. Patel: Puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha...

Prabhupāda: And that mama...

Dr. Patel: ...bhaktyā labhyas tv ananyayā [Bg 8.22].

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaktyā labhya ananyayā. Not ordinarily.

Dr. Patel: Puruṣa...

Prabhupāda: Ananya bhaktyā.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I am repeating: puruṣaḥ sa paraḥ pārtha bhaktyā labhyas tv anyayā.

Prabhupāda: That, the predominating Deity in that sanātana world, spiritual world, is puruṣa, a person. Purusa, a person. And He is achieved, bhaktya ananya. Not by mix—mixing this, mixing that; "This is also good. This is also good." No. He cannot. Bhaktya ananyayā.

Dr. Patel: Yasyāntaḥ-sthāni bhūtāni...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...yena sarvam idaṁ tatam.

Prabhupāda: Tatam. That puruṣa is spread all over.

Chandobhai: But He's not Kṛṣṅa. He is Kṛṣṅa also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is Kṛṣṅa.

Dr. Patel: Yasyāntaḥ-sthani bhūtāni.

Prabhupāda: All Vaikuṅṭha-pati, Nārāyaṅa, Nārāyaṅa.

Dr. Patel: Just as [indistinct] saw a whole world within the mouth of Bala Mukunda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Within the body of Bala Mukunda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Yasyāntaḥ-sthani bhūtāni yena sarvam idaṁ tatam.

yatra kāle tv anāvṛttim āvṛttiṁ caiva yoginaḥ prayātā yānti taṁ kālaṁ vakṣyāmi bharatarṣabha [Bg 8.23]

That is the...

Prabhupāda: This is material calculation.

Dr. Patel: Agnir jyotir ahaḥ śuklaḥ ṣaṅ-māsā uttarāyaṅam... [Bg 8.24]

Prabhupāda: Then He assures, assures Arjuna that "You are assured. Your coming to Me is assured."

Dr. Patel: [Gujarati]

dhumo rātris tathā kṛṣṅaḥ ṣaṅ-māsā dakṣiṅāyanam tatra cāndramasaṁ jyotir yogī prāpya nivartate [Bg 8.25]

Prabhupāda: This is material calculation.

Dr. Patel:

śukla-kṛṣṅe gatī hy ete jagataḥ śāśvate mate ekayā yāty anāvṛttim anyayāvartate punaḥ

naite sṛtī pārtha jānan yogī muhyati kaścana [Bg 8.26-27]

That is... Now you come.

naite sṛtī pārtha jānan yogī muhyati kaścana tasmāt sarveṣu kāleṣu yoga-yukto bhavārjuna [Bg 8.27]

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the position. Sarveṣu kāleṣu. Not that sometimes here and sometimes there. That will take long time. But unless one comes to sarveṣu kāleṣu, always thinking of Kṛṣṅa...

Dr. Patel: Vedeṣu yajñeṣu tapaḥsu caiva dāneṣu yat-puṅya-phalaṁ pradiṣṭam...

Prabhupāda: Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg 9.14].

[Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.]

That is required.

Dr. Patel: Yajñeṣu.

vedeṣu yajñeṣu tapaḥsu caiva dāneṣu yat-puṅya-phalaṁ pradiṣṭam atyeti tat sarvam idaṁ viditvā yogī paraṁ sthānam upaiti cādyam [Bg 8.28]

Prabhupāda: Yes. If one understands that all these pious activities, charity, performance of sacrifices and so many other things only by Kṛṣṅa bhakti can be achieved, then he's assured.

Dr. Patel: This is the last word.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...yuktena. Now just this woman is carrying a load on her head, how she's keeping balance? He cannot do that.

Dr. Patel: That is Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said. No, no, that is not Indira Gandhi. Ramakrishna Paramahamsa said the same thing as you say...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...that she should remain...

Prabhupāda: It is not Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. This is śāstric.

Dr. Patel: While we're talking about all these things, but the mind is in the Lord there. Their mind is on the Lord.

Prabhupāda: So...

[break] ...by abhyāsa yoga-yuktena [Bg 8.8],

[He who meditates on the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his mind constantly engaged in remembering Me, undeviated from the path, he, O Pārtha [Arjuna], is sure to reach Me.]

everything can be done.

Bhāgavata: Prabhupāda, can you tell us maybe something about Lord Rāmacandra's activities?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhāgavata: Can you tell us some things about Lord Rāmacandra's activities, today being Rāma-Navamī?

Prabhupāda: Now, you can..., some of you can speak about Lord Rāmacandra. No? Dr. Patel, you can speak something about...

Dr. Patel: About what?

Bhāgavata: Lord Rāmacandra's activities. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...tarān niyamena tiṣṭhan. [break] God is not obliged to accept your direction. [laughter]

Dr. Patel: God will not oblige the brāhmaṅas unfortunately. He'll oblige only the kṣatriyas. I don't know why.

Prabhupāda: Because He comes: paritrāṅāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām [Bg 4.8].

[In order to deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I advent Myself millennium after millennium.]

That is kṣatriya's business. Sādhu protection [Hindi]. This is kṣatriya's business. God has got two business: paritrāṅāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. If you want to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā, it is difficult. [laughs] It is not possible. He says that "I have got two business: paritrāṅāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya..." Unless these two things are there, there cannot be establishment of real law and order. [break] ...everywhere, law and order. In spiritual also. Unless there is law and order, it is chaos. Law and order must be there.

Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the civilization.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Society came into existence after the evolution of the proper civilization. Before, when... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...civilization begins when the society is organized. Otherwise, it's cats' and dogs' civilization. That is not civilization. Unless... Varṅāśramācāravatā puruṣeṅa paraḥ pumān [Cc Madhya 8.58].

[The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Viṣṅu, is worshiped by the proper execution of prescribed duties in the system of varṅa and āśrama. There is no other way to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One must be situated in the institution of the four varṅas and āśramas.’]

The society becomes perfect when the members of the society can understand that this human body is meant for satisfying Viṣṅu. That is the beginning of organized society. So long they do not know that, that is animal society. Because the animals, they do not know that.

Dr. Patel: Shall we go back?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The animals, they do not know.

[break] They do not know it, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme, Viṣṅu." So unless the society comes to this consciousness, that "We have to satisfy the Supreme," that is not human society. Now, how they will understand? Therefore four divisions.

Dr. Patel: Guṅa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg 4.13].

[According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.]

Prabhupāda: Guṅa... Yes. So if the four divisions work nicely, then it is healthy society. Otherwise it is not. If different parts of your body work nicely, then you are healthy.

Dr. Patel: Each section of the society has to, I mean, work as a...

Prabhupāda: For the maintenance.

Dr. Patel: ...part of the whole.

Prabhupāda: Whole, yes. That doesn't matter whether you are śūdra or brāhmaṅa. Your aim should be how to develop Kṛṣṅa consciousness. Then it is perfect.

ya imaṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād ātma-prabhavam īśvaram na bhajanty abhijānanti sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 11.5.3]

[Any members of the four varṅas and four āśramas who fail to worship the Personality of Godhead, the source of their own creation, or who intentionally disrespect Him will fall down from their position into a hellish state of life.]

Dr. Patel: They fall down from their own position.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether a brāhmaṅa, kṣatriya or vaiśya, śūdra. If you are conscious that "I have to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to my capacity of work," then he'll [not] fall down. He'll [not] fall down.

[break] ...fall down from the position, then it is dead society. It is not living society, at the present moment. Yes. If you don't find actual brāhmaṅa, don't find actual kṣatriya, don't find actual vaiśya, so all śūdras, and there is no guide; therefore chaotic condition.

[break] ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. So they do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader.

The leader, he says, "No, this aim of life is to drink and enjoy. That's all." This is going on. After diplomacy, politics, when they are tired, they go to the hotel or club and enjoy and drink. That's all. This is their aim of life. [break] ...there are even shops they indulge all these things, topless, bottomless, like that. Because that is the only solace to this materialistic life. There is no other. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45].

That is their... They have no other pleasure except that sex life. They have no information that there is another pleasure. That, they..., they are not educated. So they must come to the sex life only.

Dr. Patel: I think this has become very wild after the Second World War.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasā brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13].

[To concentrate the mind, one must observe a life of celibacy and not fall down. One must undergo the austerity of voluntarily giving up sense enjoyment. One must then control the mind and senses, give charity, be truthful, clean and nonviolent, follow the regulative principles and regularly chant the holy name of the Lord. Thus a sober and faithful person who knows the religious principles is temporarily purified of all sins performed with his body, words and mind. These sins are like the dried leaves of creepers beneath a bamboo tree, which may be burned by fire although their roots remain to grow again at the first opportunity.]

The brahmācārya is so much stressed. Tapasā brahmacaryena samena damena vā, tyāgena śaucena yamena niyamena vā. This is the process of human life. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kāṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1].

[Lord Ṛṣabhadeva told His sons: My dear boys, of all the living entities who have accepted material bodies in this world, one who has been awarded this human form should not work hard day and night simply for sense gratification, which is available even for dogs and hogs that eat stool. One should engage in penance and austerity to attain the divine position of devotional service. By such activity, one's heart is purified, and when one attains this position, he attains eternal, blissful life, which is transcendental to material happiness and which continues forever.]

This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in śāstra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhādeva is forbidding His sons, that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasā. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ...

Dr. Patel: Ṛṣabhadeva's hundred sons.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ [SB 5.5.1].

Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No... Wine shop...

Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge on the street.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is no question of tapasya now. Therefore the whole population is pigs, hogs and dogs. How you can expect peace and prosperity in this society? That is not possible. It is a society of pigs and hogs. Śva-viḍ... Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. If somebody says, "If the..., it is a society of pigs and hogs, then what about these leaders?"

Dr. Patel: They are bigger hogs and pigs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. That is stated: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. He's also a big paśuḥ. That's all. Otherwise, how he can dare to say that "Bhajana is nuisance"? Because it is paśuḥ. He's not even human being. Otherwise how he dares say like that? [break] ...reply that dacoit. If I reply, then I have to call him, "You are a paśuḥ."

Dr. Patel: And he told me...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: ...Girirāja, that he wants to reply separately. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...why...

Dr. Patel: His confidence.

Prabhupāda: No. Their reply is mūrkhasya lāṭhauśādhiḥ. [break]

Dr. Patel: ...mārgam?

Prabhupāda: Mūrkhasya lāṭhauśādhiḥ. It is very... [break] ...from this movement.

Dr. Patel: I have not read that letter.

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: Which way it has come? Which way, that letter? [break]

Prabhupāda: ...barking, what is the use of arguing with him?

Indian man (1): No, I have not read it.

Dr. Patel: No, we have not read. I don't know how it came to your...

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...talking of this letter of commissioner.

Dr. Patel: Oh, commissioner. [break]

Prabhupāda: They, because today's Rāma-navamī they're taking bath?

Dr. Patel: Yes, they are taking bath. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...says that "Why don't you go to the forest?"

Dr. Patel: But that somebody must have told you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. One of the important men. What is the name of that...?

Girirāja: Yogendrabhai.

Prabhupāda: Yogendrabhai. Yes. He's Yogendra. Yogī.

Dr. Patel: Yogendra Patel.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the sample of yogī. Kṛṣṅa says, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg 4.2],

[This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.]

and a yogī says that "Go to the forest." Eh? The rājarṣis are in the forest?

Dr. Patel: This is a mūḍha. [break]

Prabhupāda: [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa.

[break] ...garland, this girl. Garland just like beads.

Satsvarūpa: Make a garland out of stone?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not stone.

Satsvarūpa: Shells.

Prabhupāda: They are conchshells, small conchshells. They are called guñjā, guñjā. They are called gunja? [break]

Indian man (1): ...ahaṁ yogī nikitana.[?] So what is that? Can you give me some light on that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karma-yogī means one who does everything for Kṛṣṅa. He's karma-yogī.

Indian man (1): One who does everything for...?

Prabhupāda: For Kṛṣṅa.

Indian man (1): For Kṛṣṅa.

Prabhupāda: Just like you are doing, doing some work. For whom you are doing?

Indian man (1): For my own benefit.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is karma. But when you do the same thing for Kṛṣṅa, that is karma-yoga.

Indian man (1): But [Hindi], if you do it for others, for Kṛṣṅa, for Kṛṣṅa's...

Prabhupāda: Others... Others means... That is also a humbug. You cannot do anything for others. You do everything for yourself. That is a false propaganda. You see? That is humbugism. So either you can do for yourself or for Kṛṣṅa. That's all.

Indian man (1): I see.

Dr. Patel: [Gujarati]

Prabhupāda: [break] ...become a slogan nowadays. Nobody does for others. "For others," "For the poor," these are all humbug.

Indian man (1): You see people are doing so many hospitals, that is for others?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also puṅya-karma.

Indian man (1): [Hindi] Helping these temples, hospitals...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple construction is different from hospital construction. That is for Kṛṣṅa.

Indian man (1): But suppose somebody's doing hospitals. Is it not for others?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But how many you can give shelter? A few. There are so many suffering people. You cannot provide hospital for all of them. The hospitals are increasing, and the disease also increasing.

Indian man (1): No, as you say that doing for others is humbug.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Humbug means he cannot do it.

Indian man (1): Ācchā.

Prabhupāda: He cannot do it. He can do to his satisfaction only. That is... That is also for his satisfaction.

Indian man (1): I see.

Prabhupāda: Because by opening hospital, you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. Then what you are doing for the others? That is for your satisfaction. Try to understand. Because you cannot do anything, but still, you are wasting your time. That is for your satisfaction.

Indian man (1): Naturally for myself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. You cannot do anything. The hospitals are increasing, beds are increasing, and the diseases are increasing. Then what can you do?

Indian man (1): We can do our own satisfaction.

Prabhupāda: That's all. [break] ...done not meant for Kṛṣṅa, that is for his own satisfaction. Just like Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent: "No, no, Kṛṣṅa. I cannot kill my kinsmen." That is a good proposal. But that was his satisfaction.

Indian man (1): That is very correct.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was his satisfaction. But Kṛṣṅa wanted that "You must fight." And when he agreed to that, that is his perfection. Before that, he was trying to satisfy he.

Indian man (1): Yes. When he surrendered to Kṛṣṅa, that was his...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only purpose of life. Anything that is done, that is useless waste of time. Therefore Kṛṣṅa particularly said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṅaṁ vra... [Bg 18.66].

[Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.]

That ekam. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṅa only. That will give you perfection. Otherwise your own satisfaction, that's all.

Indian man (1): Yes, very correct, very correct.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you do, that is your satisfaction. That is karma.

Indian man (1): But not yogī.

Prabhupāda: No, karma.

[break] ...for your own sense satisfaction, that is karma. And if you do it for Kṛṣṅa's satisfaction, that is karma-yoga.

Makhanlal: Pure bhakti and karma-yoga are considered to be exactly the same?

Prabhupāda: Exactly the same. Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga. Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga.

Bhāgavata: That is the difference between the Chapter "Karma-yoga" and "Karma-yoga in Kṛṣṅa Consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pure..., pure devotion means śravaṅaṁ kīrtanam. [break]

Indian man (1): I read fifteen percent power cut from today in the state. They have not able to do the service in electric. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...cut, cent per cent. [break]

Makhanlal: ...you're performing, that is the vaidhī-bhakti stage of...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Makhanlal: ...of the sādhana-bhakti, the regulative principles?

Prabhupāda: Yes, vaidhī-bhakti means regulative principles, and when you are accustomed, automatically you perform, that is rāga-bhakti.

Makhanlal: So vaidhī-bhakti is considered superior to karma-yoga then.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Makhanlal: Vaidhī-bhakti is considered superior to karma-yoga.

Prabhupāda: No. Karma-yoga is better.

Makhanlal: Karma-yoga is better?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: Pure bhakti is superior.

Prabhupāda: Pure bhakti is śravaṅaṁ kīrtanam. Śravaṅaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṅu-smaraṅaṁ pāda-sevanam, that is pure bhakti. [break]

Yaśomatīnandana: ...formed by anybody.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Karma-yoga.

Prabhupāda: Unless one is inclined to take to devotion, it is not possible to take to karma-yoga. Who can sacrifice the profit?

Yaśomatīnandana: Does karma-yoga mean to follow exactly the śāstras?

Prabhupāda: Karma-yoga means yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṅam [Bg 9.27].

Yaśomatīnandana: Doing only for Kṛṣṅa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is karma-yoga.

Makhanlal: Which means?

Prabhupāda: "Whatever you do, you the result give Me."

Makhanlal: To Kṛṣṅa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: So we are also, those who are on the vaidhi-bhakti, they are also on the karma-yoga path because we are...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are acting under the order of the spiritual master. That is bhakti-yoga.

Bhāgavata: So when one follows the nine activities of devotion purely, that is pure bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: Then when he's following those nine activities, then he's superior.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhāgavata: Then that's superior to karma-yoga, to follow those nine principles purely.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Makhanlal: Rāgānugā-bhakti is also superior to karma-yoga then?

Prabhupāda: Bhakti is perfect stage. That is not for ordinary man.

Yaśomatīnandana: If we are working for Kṛṣṅa, Prabhupāda, what is the difference between karma-yoga and..., or bhakti, because they also mean Kṛṣṅa?

Prabhupāda: Now go on doing your duty, you'll understand gradually. Don't try to understand in one day.

Bhāgavata: It will be revealed to us as we act.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the more you become in service attitude, things will be revealed to you. Tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakāśante [ŚU 6.23]. Becomes... It becomes manifest. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau sam eva sphuraty adhaḥ [Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.234].

[No one can understand the transcendental nature of the name, form, quality and pastimes of Śrī Kṛṣṅa through his materially contaminated senses. Only when one becomes spiritually saturated by transcendental service to the Lord are the transcendental name, form, quality and pastimes of the Lord revealed to him.]

[break] ...answers.

Dr. Patel: What I will say now... I will make one man sit between the two, Vaiṣṅavas.

Prabhupāda: You know what the paramahaṁsas do?

Dr. Patel: Uh-huh.

Prabhupāda: They are mixed up.

Dr. Patel: It is what I gave to that man. Mix up, then it is far better.

Prabhupāda: Then they are all paramahaṁsas.

Dr. Patel: Then let them mix. We don't mind. But they don't mix very good.

Indian man (2): [Gujarati]

Dr. Patel: [Gujarati conversation] But yesterday was I am. Next time I will...

Prabhupāda: Fasting.

Dr. Patel: Fasting yesterday, fasting [break]