Bhagavad-gītā 4.13

Prabhupāda:

cātur-varṅyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam guṅa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ tasya kartāram api māṁ viddhy akartāram avyayam [Bg 4.13]

[According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable.]

This is a verse from Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, text number thirteen. Kṛṣṅa... The whole Bhagavad-gītā is bhagavata, means the Supreme Personality of Godhead; gītā, "spoken" or "sung." Gītā means "spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Bhagavad-gītā. Just like we speak, similarly God also speaks. We hear; God also hear. We eat; God also eats. Everything, as we do, Lord Kṛṣṅa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He also does. The difference... Difference is that He does unlimitedly; we do limitedly. That's all. The functions are the same, but His functions, His activities, are unlimited, and our functions are limited.

Why so? Now, because we are part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg 15.7]. We are part and parcel of God. The example is: just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body, so the strength of the finger is not as big as the whole body strength. It is very easily understood. The bodily strength is different from the finger's strength. The finger is also part and parcel of this body. If I say... If you ask, "What is this?" if I say, "It is my body," so there is no mistake; it is part of the body. But it is not the whole body. The whole body is different. Therefore God and the living entity, they are the same quality, but quantity different.

So in the Vedas the description is there about God and ourselves: nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13].

[The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living entities.]

What is God? God means He is the chief, nitya, chief. Nitya means eternal. Nityānām. There are millions and millions, unlimited. Nityānām, this is plural number. That we are, living entity. We are also nitya. We are also eternal, and God is also eternal, but He is the chief eternal. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is also living entity, we are also living entities, but He is the chief living entity. What is the difference between the chief and ourselves? Now, the difference is, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. There are two chiefs, two eternal... One is... Two eternal and two... Cetana means living being, two living quality. So the singular number is maintaining the plural numbers. Eko yo bahūnām.

We, we living entities, we are plural number, many. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate. Jīva... Just like the sun and the sunshine. What is the difference? The difference is... You see the sun globe. That is also number one. And what is the sunshine? The sunshine is a combination of very, very small, atomic, bright particles, the sunshine. Molecules. In the science they are called molecules. But there are many millions of small atomic parts combined together—that appears to be sunshine. So eka, the sun is one, but the sunshine means combination of many small atomic particles. Similarly, God is one, and we, part and parcel of God, we are many. Try to understand this. This is authoritative statement. So quality, the sun and the small atomic molecule, particle, both of them are bright shining. But the sun as it is and the small particle, they are not equal. Equal in quality, not in quantity.

This is perfect understanding of philosophy. This is called acintya-bhedābheda-tattva,

[It is the living entity's constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kṛṣṅa because he is the marginal energy of Kṛṣṅa and a manifestation simultaneously one and different from the Lord.]

inconceivably one and different simultaneously. We are one with God in quality, but we are different in quantity. This is the understanding. Because we are particle of God, we have got all the qualities. Not all the qualities. They have calculated, big, big saintly persons, we have got seventy-eight percent of the qualities of God in very minute quantity. Say God is cent per cent, hundred. So we are, when we are perfect, means without any material contamination, then we possess... We have already; it is now covered. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman," that's a fact, but it is now covered. When it is covered it is called jīva. Jīva-bhūtaḥ. When it is cleansed, then it is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma, brahma-bhūtaḥ. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg 18.54]

[And of all yogīs, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all.]

We are now jīva-bhūtaḥ. Jīva-bhūtaḥ means we are the same eternal living entities, pure, but somehow or other we have come in contact with this material nature.

[children making noise]

[aside:] You have to stop that. The child's disturbing.

Harikeśa: Take them outside.

Prabhupāda: This is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. We are now covered by the material energy. Just like we are covered now by the shirt and coat differently, but if we open our shirt and coat, we are human being; similarly, we are part and parcel of God. Now we are covered by this material body, subtle and gross. Subtle material body is mind, intelligence and ego, and gross material body means five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. So this is our situation.

So all we living entities, those who are within this material world... There are so many. Just like you can see so many planets. In each and every planets and stars there are living entities. Sarva-ga. Don't think that only God has favored this planet full with living entities and others are simply empty showbottle. That is not the fact. They do not know it. They have no perfect knowledge. They say that only this earthly planet is full of living entities. No. Everywhere. That description you'll get from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto. There is vivid description of the all the planets and what kind of living entities are there. So some of them are described in this Bhagavad-gītā.

So Bhagavad-gītā is the perfect knowledge. We are now materially contaminated. So you can say, "What is the wrong? If you are materially contaminated, what is the wrong?" That is our lack of knowledge. We cannot understand what is the wrong. The wrong thing we take as pleasing. This is the disease. First of all we must know whether we are happy in this material world. But we have no intelligence. Mūḍha. We have been described as mūḍha. Just like there are three kinds of miserable condition always. This boy is fanning me. Why? There is little miserable condition here: we are feeling too hot. So again, if you go outside, you may feel too cold. So either inside or outside, you are in miserable condition. This is called adhyātmika.

Then adhibhautika. Just like we tried to stop the child disturbing. So the child is another living entity, I am another living entity, but she is causing some disturbance. Not the child... There are other living entities. In your country, of course, it is very less; in our India it is very prominent—mosquitoes, flies, bugs. They give trouble. Or some enemy or some other animal attacks you. This is called adhibhautika. Adhyātmika, adhibhautika then adhidaivika. Adhidaivika means all of a sudden there is earthquake or famine or too much rain or no rain. Daivika means it is..., we have no control over it. So there are so many. These are the big heading of miserable condition: adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. And there are many, many other categories. And ultimately, as Kṛṣṅa points out, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg 13.9].

[Humility, pridelessness, nonviolence, tolerance, simplicity, approaching a bona fide spiritual master, cleanliness, steadiness and self-control; renunciation of the objects of sense gratification, absence of false ego, the perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease; nonattachment to children, wife, home and the rest, and evenmindedness amid pleasant and unpleasant events; constant and unalloyed devotion to Me, resorting to solitary places, detachment from the general mass of people; accepting the importance of self-realization, and philosophical search for the Absolute Truth—all these I thus declare to be knowledge, and what is contrary to these is ignorance.]

You may have solved all other problems. Very good. But what about your birth, death, disease and old age? These are the intelligent questions. We have to answer. We have to make solution.

Then you say that "This material world is very nice." But if you are always faced with so many problems and still you say that "Material world is very nice," so what you are? Foolish. You do not know what is the meaning of pleasure. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12].

[By nature, the Supreme Lord is blissful.]

God is ānandamaya, always full of pleasure. You will see Kṛṣṅa's picture. Just see so many pictures—ānandamaya. He is sitting down on a small rock and enjoying the association of the small animals. Just see. They are also coming to Kṛṣṅa. Simply by touching Him, they are feeling blissfulness. And Kṛṣṅa also embracing, "Yes, come on." So this is ānandamaya. Both of them are enjoying. Kṛṣṅa as a child in the lap of Mother Yaśodā—enjoying. Then Kṛṣṅa as a friend of Rādhārāṅī, He's enjoying. So you'll find always Kṛṣṅa enjoying. This is Vṛndāvana.

So we are part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṅa, so we also must be feeling enjoy. Why we are so much distressed—adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika? This question should arise. If this question does not arise, then we are as good as cats and dogs, that's all. The cats and dogs never inquire. Cat will never inquire that "Why I am starving? Why I am dying? Why everybody chases me, I have to go out?" The dog also. So if in the human form of life we remain blind without seeing the problems of life, and still we say we are very much joyful, enjoying life, where is your enjoyment? There is no enjoyment. We are foolishly thinking that enjoying life. That enjoyment life means a little sex enjoyment, that's all. That is also very abominable, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45],

[Sex life is compared to the rubbing of two hands to relieve an itch. Gṛhamedhīs, so-called gṛhasthas who have no spiritual knowledge, think that this itching is the greatest platform of happiness, although actually it is a source of distress. The kṛpaṅas, the fools who are just the opposite of brāhmaṅas, are not satisfied by repeated sensuous enjoyment. Those who are dhīra, however, who are sober and who tolerate this itching, are not subjected to the sufferings of fools and rascals.]

very abominable happiness. We don't want to discuss that. But the effect of sense enjoyment is suffering. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṅā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Illicit sex or legal sex, it is followed by so many miserable conditions. That, everyone, we can understand. Simply we have to become sober. Then we'll understand this material existence is not at all good. Not at all.

Then, as human being, as we are trying to solve our problems... The real problem we have to solve. And why we are in material condition and miserable condition? Because we have got this material body. This is the problem, real problem. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. This body is temporary. It will not exist forever. But so long it will exist, it will give trouble. This is a fact. So long we'll continue in this material body, you'll have to suffer. But we have no intelligence. We think that "We are like cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they also eat; we also eat. They sleep; we also sleep. And they have sex; we have also sex. And they defend; we also defend. Their business finished."

No. Your business is not finished. Because you are human being, you have got advanced intelligence than the cats and dog. You should know analytically what are the miserable condition of life and try to solve. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. And if we remain satisfied like cats and dogs—"So I have got something to eat, I have got some nice place to sleep, and I have also got some other sex for enjoying sex life, and I defend with so many weapons, latest nuclear weapon"—no. Śāstra says, "These things are manufactured... These things are maintained by the cats and dogs." Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṅām [Hitopadeśa 25].

[Both animals and men share the activities of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. But the special property of the humans is that they are able to engage in spiritual life. Therefore without spiritual life, humans are on the level of animals.]

This is common formula between the animals and the man. But you have got another problem: how to solve this material position. That is required by you. If you do not try to understand what is your problem and if you do not try to solve them, then you are no better than the cats and dogs. This is the śāstric injunction.

So how to organize the human society so that we may not be called the cats' and dog society? That we must know. If we keep our society only for the purpose of better eating, better sleeping, better sex life and better defense, then we don't improve. That is the business of cats and dogs. Even ants, they also know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. So our business does not finish there. Our business is more business, that "If I am eternal as God is eternal, then why I am subjected to birth and death?" This is real question. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. The Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta philosophy, begins from this inquiry, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "This human life is meant for inquiring for the Absolute Truth, what is the ultimate truth of life." Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1].

So when we forget completely our real problems of life, that is animalism. So that animalism... When the human society, the animalism is prominent, simply living like animals, that is called dharmasya glāniḥ, "deficiency in the matter of dharma." Therefore, in human society there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter what is that religion—may be Hinduism or Christianism or Muhammadanism or Buddhism—in the civilized human society there is some conception of religious principle. Without religious principle, we are cats and dogs, because in the cat society, dog society there is no such thing as church, mosque or temple or synagogue. They live naked and bark, that's all. So if we simply live and try to become naked like the cats and dogs and bark, then where is the difference? Where is the difference? No difference.

So we must take to religious system. That is humanity. You take any religion system, but you must know what is the aim of religion, not that simply profess, "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." But what is the purpose of becoming religious? That you must know. That is intelligence. Simply don't be proud by saying that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." That's all right, you have got some type of designation. But Bhāgavata says that system of religion is perfect. What is that? Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]:

[The supreme occupation [dharma] for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted to completely satisfy the self.]

"That religion, that system of religion, is perfect." Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro. Paro means perfect, without any defect. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: "By which, by becoming follower of such religious system, if you become a devotee of God, that is perfect." It does not say that you become a Hindu or you become a Muslim or you become a Christian or Buddhist or any other thing. It is very liberal, that whatever system of religion you accept, there is no harm; that's all right. But see the result. What is the result? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: whether you have understood God and whether you have become a lover of God. Then your religion is perfect.

Simply for stamping that "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no profit. That is also explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ notpādayed ratiṁ yadi śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]

[The occupational activities a man performs according to his own position are only so much useless labor if they do not provoke attraction for the message of the Personality of Godhead.]

Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ, whatever religion you profess, it doesn't matter. And you are carrying out very nicely. According to the religious system, you are following the rules and regulation and doing everything. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām: "By carefully executing the religious principle," viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ, "if you do not become anxious to understand more and more about God..." Viṣvaksena kathā... Viṣvaksena means God. Kathāsu yaḥ, notpādayed ratiṁ yadi: "If you do not become attached to hear about God more and more, then it is," śrama eva hi kevalam, "simply waste of time." Simply waste of time, because religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṅītam [SB 6.3.19].

[Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great ṛṣis who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary human beings, Vidyādharas and Cāraṅas.]

Religion means the order given by God, and you follow. This is the simple definition of religion. Other ritualistic ceremonies, formulas, going to the church or going to the temple, these are details. But real dharma means, sum and substance of dharma, religion, means to abide by the orders of God. That's all. That is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṅītam.

You cannot manufacture religion. And what is actual religion, if you follow, then you are religious. The actual religion is the God's order. That is... Everyone follows some principle of religion to understand God. And in our Vedic system the only purpose of life is to understand God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the human form of life we have no other business. No other. Other business, that, cats and dogs are also doing and we are also doing. That is automatic. It is not that other animals, they are starving. They are also eating and we are also eating. But the facility is, the other animals lower than the human being, they haven't got to do any business or any profession or go from one country to another to earn livelihood. That is their advantage. And our disadvantage is that we are trying to find out better foodstuff and rotating all over the world, and we are still not getting. So their advantage is better. The birds, small birds, in the morning, just early in the morning they will rise up and they will chirp and they will go away, because they are sure that "Our foodstuff is ready, anywhere we shall go." And that's a fact. They go to any tree. What the bird will eat? Four, five small fruit. But there are innumerable fruits in one tree, and there are innumerable trees. Similarly, take any animal, even the elephant. In Africa there are so many elephants, millions of elephants. They eat at a time forty kg. And who is supplying food? They have no business. They have no profession. How they are eating? Hmm?

Therefore I have already quoted this Vedic quotation, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So far your living conditions are concerned, what you are? Human being. You are only four hundred thousand species, and the other animals, they are eight million. So if eight million forms of body can be maintained by God, the four hundred thousand forms cannot be maintained? He maintains. He maintains. It is a fact. We are simply unnecessarily wasting our time, "Where is food? Where is shelter? Where is sex? Where is defense?" So do that. There is no objection. But do not forget God. Then it is perfect. Otherwise, śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8], simply waste of time.

[The occupational activities a man performs according to his own position are only so much useless labor if they do not provoke attraction for the message of the Personality of Godhead.]

So because the whole world now has forgotten God, we have started... Not we have started; Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You see the statues of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Five hundred years ago, seeing the fallen condition of the living entities, especially the human society, He started this Hare Kṛṣṅa movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago He appeared in Navadvīpa, a district in Bengal. And the station is sixty miles from Calcutta. We have got our very big temple there. You are invited to come there, stay there, try to understand the philosophy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We have already written Caitanya-caritāmṛta, thirteen volumes. [aside:] You have shown these book? You will find. So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also incarnation of Kṛṣṅa, but He is very liberal.

namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṅa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṅāya kṛṣṅa-caitanya- nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ [Cc Madhya 19.53]

[O most munificent incarnation! You are Kṛṣṅa Himself appearing as Śrī Kṛṣṅa Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You have assumed the golden color of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṅī, and You are widely distributing pure love of Kṛṣṅa. We offer our respectful obeisances unto You.]

He is Kṛṣṅa. Kṛṣṅa came, He left behind Him this instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham [Bg 4.7]. We can consult Bhagavad-gītā at any time and we can associate with Kṛṣṅa. Kṛṣṅa and Kṛṣṅa's instruction—nondifferent. When you read Bhagavad-gītā, you'll, if you read very seriously, you will feel Kṛṣṅa is present before you, and He is instructing.

But unfortunately, although Kṛṣṅa personally appeared and He left behind Him this Bhagavad-gītā to be read by the human society and make his life progressive and be liberated from this material condition of life, we did not care for it. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu five hundred years ago, again He appeared as a devotee, not as Kṛṣṅa. He is Kṛṣṅa, but He appeared as a devotee of Kṛṣṅa to teach us how to become devotee of Kṛṣṅa. Again this movement is started to enlighten the human society how to come to his original position of Kṛṣṅa consciousness.

So our request is that this movement, at least it has come to your country in South Africa, and you are welcome. So try to understand this movement, how much it is important. It is not a sentimental movement, neither a so-called... It is actually religious movement, but not so-called religious movement, simply some sentiments and formalities. No. It is practical application in life. And you see practically how by this movement all over the world different section of people from different nationality, different religious group, they are feeling one, oneness in Kṛṣṅa consciousness. Just try to see the potency of the movement. So take it very seriously. Take it very seriously and... You have to take it seriously; otherwise you are doomed. Otherwise you are doomed, because you do not know how the laws of nature is working upon you. You feel that you are under the laws of nature. That you cannot avoid. That is not possible. But you do not know how the laws of nature is working. That is your ignorance.

That information you will get from Bhagavad-gītā. The beginning of Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati. This is the first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg 2.13].

[As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.]

As in this life we have seen I was a child, I was a baby, I was a boy, I was a young man, now I am old man. So I have changed so many bodies. And... But I know that I was a child, I was a boy. But where is that body? Where is that child's body? Where is that young man's body? Where is that boy's body? This is gone. Now I have got another body. Therefore it is concluded, when this body is finished I'll get another body. How you can refute this logic? I have changed so many bodies within my experience. Therefore this is also within my experience. When this body, this old body will be finished, I'll get another body. That is the first instruction of Kṛṣṅa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg 2.13]. You'll get another body.

Now, Kṛṣṅa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, we have to change to another body. But we do not know what is that body. We are not prepared. Just like here I am, Johannesburg. So I know, from here I'll have to go to Nairobi. That I know. And we are making arrangement. But if as human being one does not know what is going to happen next life, then what kind of human being he is? Where is the difference between cats and dogs? The dog does not know, neither he can be instructed, neither he is able to take the instruction. But why the human being should remain like dog? This is the problem.

So we must consult Bhagavad-gītā very regularly, try to understand the problems of life. And the first problem is that you have to change your body. So what kind of change of body you are going to have? You must learn it. Otherwise you are in darkness. What is the value of life if you do not know? Suppose next life I am going to become a dog. So what is the value of my becoming this life a prime minister? But they do not know. The science is unknown. Science is known, but people are so fool that they do not take care of it. This is the position. So don't waste your time in that way. Try to understand what is the problem of life, how we can come again to the original, spiritual life. That is the ultimate solution because we are spirit. Circumstantially, I am now accepting this material body. How I can avoid it, that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find, that,

janma karma divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg 4.9]

[One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.]

We are part and parcel of God. We have come from God to enjoy this material world, but we are suffering. But if you want to go back to home, back to Godhead again, then try to understand Kṛṣṅa. This is Kṛṣṅa consciousness.

And there is no difficulty to understand Kṛṣṅa. Kṛṣṅa is explaining in the Bhagavad-gītā what He is. You read this book very carefully and try to understand Kṛṣṅa. And as soon as you understand thoroughly Kṛṣṅa, then tyaktvā... You have to give up this body. That's a fact. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg 4.9].

[One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna.]

Then no more accepting material body. Then what happens? Mām eti, Kṛṣṅa says, "He comes to Me, back to home, back to Godhead." That is the solution of life, and everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā and all the Vedic literature. We have published about hundreds of books. If you simply read these books regularly, then you will understand everything very clearly. And first of all you try to read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then the life's problem will be solved.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Haribol. [break]

Prabhupāda: Any question?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: If you have any questions, please just come forward and ask.

Prabhupāda: [aside:] Water.

Guest (1): Could you ask Prabhupāda to explain... Prabhupāda, could you explain why... I didn't quite understand why it was necessary that we have religion. You said that so that we can be different to cats and dogs.

Prabhupāda: Why it is necessary that you should know the laws of the state?

Guest (1): To know...?

Prabhupāda: Know the laws of the state. You are living in some state, under some government. So why it is necessary that you should know the government's laws?

Guest (1): So you can live best under them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: So we can live best under them.

Prabhupāda: So you must have religion to have proper life.

Guest (1): In other words, religion means...

Prabhupāda: I have already explained: religion means the law given by God. As you are..., you must abide by the laws of the government, similarly, the supreme government, God's, you must know what is His purpose. Otherwise you'll be misguided and you'll be punished. Just like if you violate the government laws, you are liable to be punished; similarly, if you violate the supreme government's law, then you will be punished.

Guest (2): Surely, if we live naturally we will be obeying God's law.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God's law you must know. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā ultimately God says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṅaṁ vraja [Bg 18.66]: "You just become obedient to Me, surrendered to Me. I shall give you all protection." This is the law. So if you become a surrendered soul to God, then your position is very secure. Otherwise you will suffer.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Are there any other questions?

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda? If you follow the essence of any religion, is that the law of God?

Prabhupāda: The essence I have already given: to surrender to God. What else, essence? What is else? The essence is that you surrender to God. You may follow any religious system, it doesn't matter, but whether you know God and whether you have surrendered to Him, that is essence. If you do not know God, then what is the meaning of your religion? And if you do not surrender to God, if you surrender to your senses only, then what is religion? Simply by rubber-stamping religion... That has happened at the present moment. Nobody knows what is meant by religion. And this is the essence of religion: to surrender to God. So if you do not know who is God, where you are going to surrender? You cannot surrender to the air. You must know what is God and what is surrender meaning, gradually. But this is the essence of religion, to surrender to God.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati [SB 1.2.6]

[The supreme occupation [dharma] for all humanity is that by which men can attain to loving devotional service unto the transcendent Lord. Such devotional service must be unmotivated and uninterrupted to completely satisfy the self.]

If you want to be happy, ātmā, suprasanna, then you should be a lover, bhakti, devotee of God. This is the essence.

Guest (3): Prabhupāda, if the essence of religion is to know God, how does He reveal Himself to you?

Prabhupāda: He is revealing. Read Bhagavad-gītā, you understand Him. He is explaining Himself. What you want more? Suppose if you want to know something about Me and I explain to you, "I am like this," then where is your difficulty? Where is your difficulty? You can conjecture that "Swāmījī may be like this, may be like that, may be...," and if I say, "All right, sit down. I shall explain what I am," then where is the difficulty?

Guest (3): You are incarnate. God is...

Prabhupāda: I am not incarn... I am giving this example. Anyone, if you want to know, if that person explains to you elaborately, then where is your difficulty to know the person? You said, "How can I know God?" You said? That is your question?

Guest (3): Right.

Prabhupāda: But God is explaining Himself. Why don't you take advantage of it?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Are there any other questions?

Guest (4) [Indian man]: Prabhupāda, is it true that can a human body takes a form of a human body in the next birth?

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṅa doesn't say. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg 2.13].

[As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change.]

You will get another body, but that does not mean human body. That will depend on your price. Just like if I say, "When your coat is old and torn, you'll purchase another coat." So that another coat, what kind of coat, that will depend on your price, as you are able to pay. Similarly, your activities in this life will decide what body you are going to get next life.

Guest (4): Prabhupāda, that perhaps contradicts with the theory of reincarnation.

Prabhupāda: What is that incarnation theory? You are going to get another body. That is reincarnation. Now, what kind of body you are going to get, that will depend on your work. There are 8,400,000 different types and forms of body. So you are at liberty to work. Therefore the direction is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, "You work like this, then you get the body like this." So this is risky life. Without knowing the law of God, without knowing how nature is working, how the living entity is getting different types of body—without this knowledge, if we simply keep ourself on the business of eating, sleeping, sex and defense like cats and dogs, this is very, very risky life. So our Kṛṣṅa consciousness movement is trying to save the human society from this risky life and to understand what is God, how he can go back to home, how he can get eternal life. This is our business.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Are there any other questions?

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Chant. [end]