Morning Walk

Prabhupāda: What is this meaning?

Hari-śauri: They say that's just a figure of speech.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: A figure of speech. Not meant to be literal.

Prabhupāda: Everything is theory. No practical. [break] ...ten direction. Eight direction, corner, and north-east, east-west, and up and down. So everywhere He is present. So Kṛṣṅa has got ten hands. So my father used to say, "If when Kṛṣṅa takes your money or possession in ten hands, how you can protect it with two hands? And when He give you in ten hands, how much you can take in two hands?" [laughs] So in my case it has become practical. Everything He has taken in ten hands, and now He is giving in ten hands. [laughter] I am practically experiencing. My Guru Mahārāja ordered me, "You do this." I was trying to save my business, my family, with two hands, and Kṛṣṅa took it in ten hands. [laughs] And now, after making me beggar, He is giving me, ten hands: "You take as much as you like." Now I am thinking of my father's instruction. [break] ...ambition was that I become a great devo..., bhāgavata. That was his... He used to invite so many saintly persons, and he would pray, "Please bless my son"—I was very pet son—"that he may become a devotee of Rādhārāṅī. Rādhārāṅī may bless him." That was his only prayer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Fulfilled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was inviting so many saintly persons. That is the old system, to receive saintly person.

Hṛdayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that you were not so much impressed by the saintly persons that were coming.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Why was that?

Prabhupāda: Not all of them were real Vaiṣṅava. That was my discrimination from the beginning of my life. I never liked these bogus svāmīs and yogīs. I never liked. But my father had no discrimination: "Never mind whatever he is. He is a saintly person. Receive him." He was giving fortnightly... There was one Māyāvādī sannyāsī in Kālīghāṭa. So first of all the father was sannyāsī, then his son was sannyāsī. So we had very good relationship with him. I also used to... Because father was going. So he would carry gāñjā for him—in those days gāñjā was very cheap—so much gāñjā and so much butter. Whenever he would visit, he'd give some red cloth, gāñjā and butter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Your father would give him gāñjā?

Prabhupāda: That, to sannyāsī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Why?

Prabhupāda: Well, he was smoking gāñjā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But why did he supply him?

Prabhupāda: He did not discriminate that "This is bad." He smokes, and he had some regard for him. "All right, take gāñjā." [laughter]

Hṛdayānanda: So Kṛṣṅa is also like that if we...

Prabhupāda: He was offering him something, "Whatever he likes." That was his theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Friendly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "It doesn't matter." He did not know the gāñjā smoking was bad for sādhu. That is impression in India. We criticize, but in India, in every sādhu samāj they smoke gāñjā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Still?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not high class. These bogus svāmīs and yogīs, they...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes, that Mr. Das, the lawyer who came here?

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I used to visit him, and he had one sādhu who used to come who was his guru, and he would also smoke gāñjā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gāñjā smoking is not taken as bad in India—by the sādhus, not ordinary men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Right. He told me, Mr. Das, that it increased his meditation and ecstasy.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, gāñjā smoking by the sādhus, sannyāsīs, is not taken very bad, serious. The hippies learned from them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Allen Ginsberg introduced. "Yes. Gāñjā smoking is very good by the saintly person."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I think your Guru Mahārāja spoke strongly against such persons.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And from him we learned that intoxication, any kind of intoxication, is bad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura also was...

Prabhupāda: He was also not very serious, but Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura was very serious, and we learned from him. No, it is śāstriya. No intoxication is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: How is it that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was not so strict in that regard, yet his son, who learned from him, became very strict, like a rod?

Prabhupāda: [chuckles] Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura was so strict [laughs] that because he married twice, he used to say, "Strī-saṅgī, attached to woman," even his father. [laughter] He was very strict. Sometimes when he would be angry, he'd, "You strī-saṅgī." And don't discuss this thing. [laughs] He was very strict. No excuse, no compromise.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That's where you got all of that from.

Prabhupāda: My is imitation, but his was real. [laughs] All these Navadvīpa people were afraid of him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Afraid.

Prabhupāda: Strong-hearted. They made a, what is called, conspiracy to kill him.

Hṛdayānanda: Who did this?

Prabhupāda: Oh, the Navadvīpa gosvāmīs. They raised 25,000 rupees and wanted to bribe this police officer that "You take this money. We shall finish him. Don't take any action."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But the policeman said...?

Prabhupāda: Refused. "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Why?

Prabhupāda: "He's a saintly person. We cannot agree to that." Everyone knows police takes bribe. They admit, "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases." This was told by Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisi..., to me. He was talking many things confidential.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No, but what is that story that one time Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī was invited to... He wanted to get invitation or he was invited to speak, and they put so many conditions on his speaking. It was some place.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They said, "Now you cannot speak on such and such subject." He agreed, "All right."

Prabhupāda: I think there was a Vaiṣṅava meeting inaugurated by Mahārāja Maṅīndrānandī. You are referring to that. [break] When I was visiting, I used to sit on his couch. Yes, like... Guru Mahārāja was sitting on the couch, so I took him as ordinary gentleman. So then nobody asked me that, that "You are sitting? Get down." No. Nobody asked me. Then I was seeing that all other big, big disciples, they are sitting down. So then I began to sit down. Neither Guru Mahārāja told me, neither anybody told me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What kind of a... It was a regular couch...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: ...or a cauki?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not cauki; couch. That padded couch, bench.

Hṛdayānanda: Sofa.

Prabhupāda: Sofa, sofa, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Oh, boy. You were a young man at that time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But no one said anything.

Prabhupāda: Not very young. It was in 19... Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: 1923?

Prabhupāda: No. '23, of course, when I first met him, he was sitting, ground. I was also. At Mathurā there was party, parikramā party, in 1933. So I went to see that party, what they are doing, Gauḍīya Maṭha, out of inquisitiveness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It was at that time.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You mentioned once that most of the parikramā devotees, they wanted to go on parikramā, but he was speaking?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I did not go to parikramā, so he very much appreciated. There was announcement that "Now parikramā will start in the evening at five, and Prabhupāda also will speak. So anyone who wants to hear Prabhupāda, he can stay. Others be ready for going." So about a dozen men remained, and all went to parikramā. So I was at that time new man—not exactly new man, but not recognized disciple. I did not go. So he saw that I am sitting, I did not go to parikramā. He very much appreciated. I preferred to hear him than go to parikramā. That he appreciated.

Hari-śauri: That was the same time that you took initiation?

Prabhupāda: Yes. After that, I took initiation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Where was the initiation ceremony?

Prabhupāda: That Allahabad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: In Allahabad.

Prabhupāda: 1933.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: So from Mathurā everyone went to Allahabad?

Prabhupāda: Yes, or they went to somewhere. But I came back. From Allahabad I went to Mathurā, and I came back to Allahabad at my own place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Initiation was held at that Gauḍīya Maṭha in Allahabad?

Prabhupāda: Hah. At that time that Gauḍīya Maṭha also not there. That is at a rented house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Did you help to build that one?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Did you help to establish that Gauḍīya Maṭha? Of that was after?

Prabhupāda: No, majority was paid by one of my Godbrothers, that three thousand, purchasing land. Then gradually developed. We used to pay something. [break] ...before to here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Oh, yeah. He has come many times, Tarun Babu.

Prabhupāda: He came many times? [end]