Morning Walk

[in car]

Prabhupāda: In the material world, whatever you do, the central point is sex. That's all. This is the verdict of the śāstras. Whatever big, big things you do, [laughs] the central point is sex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, that's a point which I've noticed. Sometimes when I'm talking to someone, I tell them that "Practically speaking, all that you're doing is eating, sleeping, mating and defending." But they say, "I don't agree with you because," they say, "we're doing so many things. Just like our school work; it is not eating, sleeping, mating and defending. It is philosophy, it is appreciation of literature."

Prabhupāda: Then what is the end? The end is sex.

Rāmeśvara: The end is sex. Just like they have these big, big skyscrapers for so many businesses...

Prabhupāda: This big, big philosopher Freud, and says they're only sex.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes, but they're... Suppose Sartre, just like you were speaking of Sartre the other day. His end is not apparently sex life.

Prabhupāda: What is that śāstra?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No, Sartre, Sartre. You were speaking on...

Prabhupāda: No, not that all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They just... I found that they don't agree when you say that. They say "I am doing so many things." Just like... [break] [walking]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: [testing tape] Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa. I think the tape is...

Rāmeśvara: In your quarters, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or in the temple room?

Prabhupāda: Anywhere is nice.[?]

Baradrāj: Are there any other Deities besides Kāliya-Kṛṣṅa you want us to make for Fiji?

Prabhupāda: Rādhā-Kṛṣṅa and Guru-Gaurāṅga.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī and yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Baradrāj: Life-size Deities?

Prabhupāda: You have not seen Vṛndāvana?

Baradrāj: Just the same size as Vṛndāvana's?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]

Baradrāj: That Deity, what size should that be?

Prabhupāda: The height is ten feet, ceiling, ten or twelve feet. [break] Ten to twenty inches.

Baradrāj: All together, with Kāliya?

Prabhupāda: No, Kāliya...

Baradrāj: Just Kṛṣṅa. There should be four nāga-patnīs?

Prabhupāda: Four.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Like mermaids.

Baradrāj: What is the special significance of constructing Kāliya-Kṛṣṅa temple in Fiji?

Prabhupāda: They say that "Kāliya lived here."

Baradrāj: Is that true?

Prabhupāda: Well, might. [break] But it is Kṛṣṅa's līlā, so...

Baradrāj: Kāliya then became a devotee after Kṛṣṅa subdued him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Baradrāj: They are both worshipable.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

[break] [in car]

Rāmeśvara: This is supposed to be the... [noise of car windows] I was once told that these irregularities in the climate are due to sinful activities. Los Angeles has a nice climate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: People I speak to, they say, "Yes, even in the last twenty years we can notice a great change in the weather patterns." People say that.

Prabhupāda: Disturbance means sinful atmosphere.

Rāmeśvara: In Bhāgavatam, you wrote that when there is a great storm or hurricane, some demon has taken birth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And also that it is the king's responsibility to see that there is good weather. If there's good government, then automatically...

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: These buildings are churches, but they're all closed. But our churches are lively, even at four in the morning.

Prabhupāda: From four o'clock up to ten.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes. Now there's twenty-four-hour kīrtana. So all day and night. [break]

Rāmeśvara: ...on the decline of the churches in America, and they say that the biggest reason in the last few years is that Pope, he issued one big statement against birth control and abortion. He said, "Catholics cannot practice birth control and should never have abortion." So they did not like this. So that is the biggest reason for the decrease in attending the church. They broke away from the authority.

Prabhupāda: That means if the church allows sense gratification without any restriction, then they'll attend church. That is the conclusion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They're dictating.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: The mass is dictating. Same thing as in...

Prabhupāda: That means, conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said, "You cannot do this sinful," and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.

Rāmeśvara: Even the priests, they said that when the Pope issued that document, they lost faith in him as the representative of God.

Prabhupāda: Just see. [laughs] Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they're supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Churches[?]... They are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Oh, yes. It is progressive. They feel that is the progressive way to think.

Rāmeśvara: And the church should not interfere with their... That is their decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It is personal life.

Prabhupāda: This is the rascaldom. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You say no meat, fish or eggs, no gambling, no intoxicants, no illicit sex, and we are all coming gladly. That means you're offering something alternative. They're not offering any alternative.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing to give. Simply denial, how it will act?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Sometimes when I talk with Christians, I tell them that "The reason that you're not feeling any bliss is that you're not following the way Jesus lived. We are living like him. He was wearing robes, he was living simply. But you, you're living in big, fancy buildings with so many washing machines and this machine and that, and your whole life is complicated."

Prabhupāda: No... Grievous folly is that they are disobeying the Ten Commandments.

Rāmeśvara: Disobeying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That is the thing. "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not be an adulterer." Those are the two big ones.

Rāmeśvara: "Covet thy neighbor's property, steal. Dishonor the mother and father, the cow, the earth, God."

Prabhupāda: Cow also?

Rāmeśvara: Well, there's one of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shalt honor thy mother and thy father." But the mother is one of the cows, the earth. I mean the earth is the mother, the cow is the mother.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So they dishonor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They have no eyes to see that actually we are following strictly the teachings of Jesus.

Rāmeśvara: And they always say that Jesus ate fish. They always use that as an argument.

Prabhupāda: Jesus ate fish, therefore we shall eat our sons? Is that any reason? Jesus ate fish; therefore I shall eat my son.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And where does it say he ate any meat? Never. Simply fish. So we should tell them, "Then you eat fish, but don't eat meat. Stop meat-eating."

Hari-śauri: One of the great things is that they like to drink wine as well, because Jesus drank wine.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, he drank wine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: But he didn't go to the bar. The way he drank wine was in a sacrament. You're drinking in a bar. So anyway, we should tell them, if you want to...

Prabhupāda: Jesus drank wine, but nobody said Jesus is a drunkard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Drunkard, exactly. And you can also, when you do all the things that he did, then you can also drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Now, Jesus was crucified; I shall crucify you. Come on. You're so pious that now you prepare to be crucified. Come on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And you forgive me for doing it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You take my sins and be crucified. Then I shall know that you are real followers of [indistinct]. Take all my sins and I crucify you.

Rāmeśvara: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, you wrote that Vaiṣṅavas like Vāsudeva Datta, they're even greater than Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Did I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes. You said that Jesus only gave shelter to his few followers, but Vāsudeva Datta prayed that the whole sinful activities of the whole universe...

Rāmeśvara: "Be on me, I'll take them."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You said..., I think it said, he was a thousand times greater. You wrote that in the purport.

Prabhupāda: Nature's law is not like that, that "You suffer for me." No. "I suffer for my [indistinct]." It is magnanimity that I'll suffer. Sometimes they do so, but actually nature's law is different. If you have committed theft, you will suffer; why I shall suffer? Even if I say in the court that "I'll go to the jail," he'll not [indistinct]. [break] ...city in the world except in America, such nice roads.

Hari-śauri: The Americans are expert at building highways.

Prabhupāda: They have got money, and all these... [indistinct] They want to do it, [laughs] but where is the money?

Rāmeśvara: They use these arguments that they are civilized, that they are making progress.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Rāmeśvara: Americans.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I say also, that you are fortunate. Take Kṛṣṅa consciousness and be the best nation in the world. Simply you take Kṛṣṅa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: The Indians would argue that "Just see. The Americans are not so religious, but they have good material wealth."

Prabhupāda: No. In America, Kṛṣṅa consciousness has developed. What you have done? Why don't you say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: "But our forefathers have done, and just see the mess we are in because of it."

Prabhupāda: Forefathers ate ghee, so lick up your hand. My forefathers ate ghee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: All you have is dalda now.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Why dalda? Your forefathers had ghee. You enjoy it now.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, if we introduce ghee in America, we'll be very famous. That will make us very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. You have got enough milk, you can do it.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that as our movement becomes greater and greater, then taking Kṛṣṅa prasādam at a restaurant or at our Sunday feast will be like a national pastime.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Everyone in the country.

Prabhupāda: And the Rathayātrā also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes, it will be like going to the ball game.

Prabhupāda: Rathayātrā, introduce in every city. We have already got some national holiday?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You'll get everywhere. In this way, one day we'll capture the whole government, and you'll become the president.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [laughter]

Rāmeśvara: You said Balavanta.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta may be his secretary. You can... [laughter]

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was told you once said that he would be in the White House before he's forty years old.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] No, I did not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That was only to encourage him.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, to encourage him. Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: No, if you bring public in your favor, it is not difficult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That's a fact. You have to bring them in your favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "A Kṛṣṅa conscious man. He's a Kṛṣṅa conscious man. Give him vote." This opinion. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It will happen gradually.

Rāmeśvara: One day our men will be leaders of government? They will actually...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Leaders means as soon as you make the public in your favor, you are leader.

Rāmeśvara: But they'll actually manage the government?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? That is Kṛṣṅa's desire. The Kurukṣetra battle was for this purpose. The Pāṅḍavas should be on the throne, not the Duryodhana. This is Kṛṣṅa consciousness movement. All-round, not that we're simply chanting. We're fighting also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Arjuna monks.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: We had a nice experience...

Prabhupāda: All-round.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: ...in Berkeley, when we started to fight...

Prabhupāda: They may not misunderstand us that we are...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Pacifists.

Prabhupāda: Pacifists, or a sect of religious faith. We want to remold, remodel everything.

Hari-śauri: That's something we have to get out of their heads, that we're just some kind of a select sect or something.

Prabhupāda: That they'll understand as they read our books, that we are all-round reformer.

Rāmeśvara: They have created so many problems that to manage their government is the biggest headache.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They've created so many problems to solve.

[pause]

Prabhupāda: [apparently reading sign] South Pacific Railway? ISKCON government means this, stop all these four things. No slaughterhouse, close. The meat-eaters may become agitated, they may complain. "No, you are not forbidden to eat, you can eat, but slaughter in your house."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Natural death.

Prabhupāda: The government is not going to maintain slaughterhouse. That's all. We don't forbid you; you can do at your home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes. The cows will die one day from old age, then they can eat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you like to eat, the dead cow. Just like you are eating... [break] [end]