Morning Walk

Viśvakarmā: Soon they will be able to sell it to us. [Prabhupāda laughs] Then we'll make a walkway across.

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma, harer nāma [Cc Ādi 17.21].

[In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for self-realization than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.]

[break]

Indian (1): Where there's the cold, it is like a demoniac place, cold. Is it right?

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes.

Indian (1): What about if it is too warm then? I mean why don't they [indistinct]?

Prabhupāda: Too warm, too cold, both are bad. [break]

Devotee: ...too warm, but it is not bad.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] In India it is actually so. [break]

Śubhavilāsa: ...land is getting the benefit by your lotus feet, very pious. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...propaganda is going on to kill God. Pānī hai to peśāb karne ke liye. [?] [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: ...yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that India this year has produced a record crop of wheat, surplus.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if they work, they can do that. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: In West Bengal they have huge quantities of rice surplus.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Hari-śauri: Could that be due to our saṅkīrtana activities?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Bhavanti parjanyaḥ..., parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ [Bg 3.14].

[All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rain. Rains are produced by performance of yajña [sacrifice], and yajña is born of prescribed duties.]

There was big valley like this in Tokyo. We walked, and there was a creek like this. Not so dirty. [break]

Śubhavilāsa: ...high commissioners, so for the passport. They're so demoniac, they're not working at all, they're.... [break] ...politics, and they sit there and people... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...is sympathetic with this movement. Everyone wants godlessness. And this movement is preaching about God, so nobody likes us. [chuckles] [break]

Devotee: They've poisoned the lakes so much in Canada now that they've been making an attempt to turn rivers around in northern Ontario to flush the lakes out like a toilet, so they can flush the water down to cities like Chicago. [break] [laughter]

Prabhupāda: To save all these botherations. You live here? How long you'll live in Canada?

Devotee: Nine years.

Prabhupāda: No...

Devotee (2): How long will you live here?

Devotee: Well, I don't know. [laughter]

Devotee (2): One lifetime.

Satsvarūpa: ...the leaf movement. That movement is another watering of the leaf and branches instead of the root, to try to improve the lakes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramam avyayam [Bg 7.13].

[Deluded by the three modes [goodness, passion and ignorance], the whole world does not know Me who am above the modes and inexhaustible.]

It has been published in the paper that we consider everyone a rascal, miscreant...

Devotee: Sinful.

Prabhupāda: ...who is not Kṛṣṅa conscious. That has been published. [laughter] You have seen it?

Viśvakarmā: Which paper was that?

Devotees: Los Angeles Times. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...question? Tell it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: The reply to the..., I don't exactly know the question, the reply was that...

Hari-śauri: The question was what was Prabhupāda's opinion about other gurus, like Guru Maharaj-ji and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: So Prabhupāda replied that "We are not interested in so-called other gurus. Simply we know this, that Kṛṣṅa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that persons who are not Kṛṣṅa conscious, they're either foolish, miscreants, sinful, lowest amongst mankind, or their knowledge is stolen by illusion." Unquote.

Prabhupāda: General definition.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: The Los Angeles Times has a circulation of one and a half million daily. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...recently I said all these so-called gurus are either rascals, miscreant, lowest of the mankind, or they have no knowledge. [chuckling] Not directly; indirectly.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: How's that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is fact. These rascals come here for women and money, that's all. They do not know what is spiritual life. If I say like that, you think it is right or wrong?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: You're right.

Devotee: Good idea. You didn't compromise.

Prabhupāda: Why compromise? [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: ...think the nondevotees would like to be classified in one of those four categories.

Prabhupāda: But they are. They may not..., they may like or not like, it doesn't matter, but they are. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: ...that even persons who come to Kṛṣṅa with material desires, although...

Prabhupāda: They are pious.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: So is it to be understood that a very simple person who has all kinds of material desires, if he approaches God...?

Prabhupāda: Because he has approached God, therefore he's pious. Even though he has got material desires. Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāma [SB 2.3.10]. One day, he will become devotee. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to search God for some material benefit, but when he became perfect, he became pure devotee. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: ...are better off than the godless philosophers and jñānīs? These people are better off than the mental speculator jñānīs?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes, thousand times. [break] ...gentleman has not come?

Devotee: Yesterday? No. Bhāgya.

Prabhupāda: So 'haṁ bhāgya [Hindi conversation] [break]

Śubhavilāsa: ...initiated devotee, and he follows those four regulative principles and chants sixteen rounds, will he go back to Godhead?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Mām evaiśyasi asaṁśaya. Kṛṣṅa says. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśaya [Bg 18.65].

[Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.]

Asaṁśaya, without any doubt.

Śubhavilāsa: But by taking initiation, will that speed up the process?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: I inquired yesterday. [break]

Satsvarūpa: ...professor who's going to see you tonight, Professor O'Connel, he wrote a book review of Dr. Judah's book about our movement. And he said it was a very sympathetic book, Dr. Judah's, he said, and a little bit too sympathetic on one point. And he made his statement. He thinks that our movement, the way we deny the flesh, he said, he called "denying the flesh," it tends to make us a little cold in our relations to each other, and people in the Hare Kṛṣṅa movement are denying the natural affection that is somehow connected with the flesh.

Prabhupāda: No, we want to, what is called, reject that society. We cannot become sympathetic with everyone. That is not our policy. Asat-saṅga-tyāga vaiṣṅava ācāra [Cc Madhya 22.87].

Hari-śauri: We can go back now if you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was asked what is the general behavior of a Vaiṣṅava, He said that the first thing is that you should give up bad company. So these are bad company. We cannot have any sympathy. We cannot make any compromise with everyone. That is not possible. The modern scientists, they have made quarantine? Quarantine? What is that?

Hari-śauri: Separation.

Prabhupāda: Hah.

Hari-śauri: If someone has a disease, they separate.

Prabhupāda: Those who are infected, they should be separated. You cannot make any compromise.

Satsvarūpa: His point was that even amongst ourselves, even amongst the devotees, he says, there is not enough expression of love, because we don't allow...

Prabhupāda: Well, then... Trying to be perfect.

Satsvarūpa: Flesh, skin disease.

Prabhupāda: Perfect does not mean that they should eat meat and drink wine. That does not mean. What is his objection?

Satsvarūpa: I think what it comes down to is that he objects that we are against illicit sex.

Prabhupāda: Oh. [laughter] That means he is accustomed.

Jagadīśa: These professors sit around, discuss topics of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Satsvarūpa: And their discussion is very blasphemous. This Dr. Dimmock, he's made much investigation upon the six Gosvāmīs, and he's read all manuscripts, and he's always going to India and studying Rūpa Gosvāmī and Lord Caitanya, but everything is extremely blasphemous that he writes. So in both ways—in their habits and whatever they write. So the Library Party men, they become friendly to these professors, but only to use them more or less, that they'll accept our books, despite themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we must do. [break] ...policy is when we go to a, what is called, a bad character, we don't go to associate with him, but to give him our association. Therefore we must be strong and very pure, so that your association, they will be benefited. For the preachers, īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu [SB 11.2.46], the four behavior. Īśvara, tad-adhīneṣu, devotees, bāliśeṣu, innocent, and dviṣatsu, those who are envious. So a devotee, those who are preachers, they, prema, loving God, making friendship with devotee, and those who are innocent, to deliver. And those who are envious, reject. [break]

Jagadīśa: ...professor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, named Motilal, is a Bengali Vaiṣṅava. But now he drinks and eats meat. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...objection of Professor O'Connel?

Satsvarūpa: He said that we don't..., we deny expression of love through the body. Just like the gṛhasthas are not allowed, except to have children, to have sex, and brahmacārīs not at all. So by denying... These are natural ways to express love, he says, and by denying them, the people in this movement become somewhat cold and don't have the experience of love.

Prabhupāda: Love? This is love or lust?

Satsvarūpa: He says there's a definite connection between the flesh and love, and you can't deny it, he said. I argued with him, but that was his viewpoint, that love is expressed through the flesh.

Prabhupāda: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaiṣṅava philosophy?

Devotee: He's a sick doctor.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: That would mean that the dog is a great lover, because he's so lusty.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.

Satsvarūpa: I told him if you observe the devotees, you'll see they have very affectionate loving dealings with one another, but it's not based on the flesh. We don't have to...

Prabhupāda: That is lust. Sahajiyā. Lust is going on as love. [break] ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Basically, he said it was a good book and that our movement is an important movement. But he made that one objection.

Devotee: Then how does he explain how so many devotees can live together peacefully and happily if there's no reciprocation of love? Materialists can't even live together with their wife for very long. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they're simply interested in human flesh. They're not concerned about all of the animal slaughter that's going on. They don't make objection to the animal slaughter, the animal flesh. But when it comes to the human flesh, because they think they can enjoy, then they take some concern.

Prabhupāda: They are taking human flesh also. Gradually they will be accustomed to take human flesh. Carnivores also. [break] ...Mahāprabhu said, asat eka strī-saṅgī [Cc Madhya 22.87]. Strī-saṅgī, those who are attached to woman, he's asat. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: The question might arise that a jñānī is someone who is aware of his spiritual nature, that he's not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Then the karmī is one who is dehātma-buddhi, in the bodily concept of life, and he's desiring so many materialistic things. So how can it be that the karmī, who is after some material benefit, if he approaches Kṛṣṅa, he can be better off than the jñānī?

Prabhupāda: Because he has approached Kṛṣṅa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: Even he may be in the bodily concept?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That will be rectified. Sat sad bhavati dharmātmā [Bg 9.31].

[He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kuntī, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes.]

Huh? What is that? Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṅaśyati. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk [Bg 9.30].

[Even if one commits the most abominable actions, if he is engaged in devotional service, he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated.]

When one has come to the fire, some way or other, he'll be warm, gradually. That is the... He has come to the right path.

[break] ...kāmād bhayāt, krodhāt. Either... Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṅa... Just like gopīs, they were captivated. They were village girls. They did not know what is God, what is Brahman, nothing. But they were captivated: "Kṛṣṅa is very beautiful boy." That's all. Even they forgot their own husbands. Everyone.

[break] ...or other, we have to develop our intense love of Kṛṣṅa. Then life is perfect.

[in car]

[break] ...one who is accepting this body as self, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].

[One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth—such a person is no better than a cow or an ass.]

They are making paper?

Devotee: Tar.

Prabhupāda: From tar, you find paper?

Viśvakarmā: Yes. All different types of packaging have mills as well. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: They keep salt in here for...

Prabhupāda: Salt?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṅa: When it snows on the highways, trucks come and they pour salt so it keeps the snow melting. More friction on the road for the tires. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...wine and cigarettes, just like here you can purchase by slot. What is called?

Hari-śauri: Machine.

Prabhupāda: Machine. Yes. That is there. You pay, and get cigarette and drink can. There are many boxes like that on the street, public street. And they pass urine on the road. There is no restriction, standing apart.

Hari-śauri: Like dogs and cats.

Prabhupāda: Every few step, there is a shop, young girl, wine, and a man is sitting.

Hari-śauri: Germany is very famous for its beer festivals. Germany. It's very famous for it's beer festivals.

Prabhupāda: Beer. Yes. Sadānanda told me. He was drinking beer, barrels. [laughs] He told me.

Hari-śauri: They even have a mug so big that it takes one gallon of beer at a time.

Prabhupāda: And they drink.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's possible in the summer season, one of the big tourist attraction is to go to these big beer festivals. And you can go, they last about a fortnight, one week or a fortnight, and you can travel down the Rhine Valley and move every week to a new beer festival, like that, all through the summer. It's a big tourist thing. [end]