Garden Conversation

Prabhupāda: Why should we bother about this and that?

Svayambhūr: Prabhupāda, you wrote in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that the Caitanya mahā-mantra, śrī-kṛṣṅa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, there is no offense to that. And so therefore in the Kali-yuga it is actually more beneficial...

Prabhupāda: Offense is that what is spoken by the ācāryas, if you do not follow, that is offense. Guror avajñā. That is offense. To chant gaura-nitāi is no offense. But if our previous gurus have chanted śrī-kṛṣṅa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī-advaita—why should we go beyond that? That is guror avajñā. Even there is no aparādha, because guru..., Kavirāja Gosvāmī, has sung like that, and my guru has sung, we should follow that. We should not make any deviation. That is guror avajñā śruti-śāstra-nindanam. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. So it comes to be one of the items of the daśa-vidha-aparādha. Guror avajñā.

Svayambhūr: Should we consider that it's more beneficial for people to hear bhaja śrī-kṛṣṅa-caitanya...

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already... Why should you go here and there? There is already śrī-kṛṣṅa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda. Why you are so anxious to go out of it?

Svayambhūr: No, I'm saying is it more beneficial for people to hear that mantra than the Hare Kṛṣṅa mantra? Is it more beneficial for people to hear the pañca-tattva mantra than the Hare Kṛṣṅa mahā-mantra?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You are going to Hare Kṛṣṅa through Nitāi-Gaura. Nitāiyer karuṅā habe braje rādhā-kṛṣṅa pābe. The principle is: don't try to manufacture. Because you are not experienced, so what nonsense you will manufacture, that will be offensive. Better go on, the simple thing.

Svayambhūr: I know one devotee that chants pañca-tattva mantra...

Prabhupāda: Let them chant whatever. We shall chant like this, pañca-tattva... śrī-kṛṣṅa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. I've explained that. Five features of Lord Caitanya.

Svayambhūr: He chants that mantra on his beads.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Svayambhūr: That boy Richard, in Rādhā-kuṅḍa.

Prabhupāda: Rascal. That is his bad association. Therefore I say don't follow these so-called Rādhā-kuṅḍa bābājīs. Nara-kuṅḍa bābājī. And they smoke bīḍī. I have seen. Richard is still there?

Svayambhūr: Yes. He's in very bad health.

Prabhupāda: But he has got money.

Svayambhūr: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Spending money there?

Akṣayānanda: I haven't been there for a long time, but I just heard about.

Prabhupāda: No, he has got money. How he is spending?

Harikeśa: He has hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Harikeśa: Probably in New York.

Prabhupāda: So he does not bring that?

Harikeśa: Yes, he has money all the time.

Svayambhūr: Dhanañjaya prabhu, he went to see him, and he said he was dying because of bad health. And he said that he had written a will, and on the will he had left most of his money to ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Caraṅāravindam: I expect he loves you very much. Actually, he's very attracted to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why does he not come to us? He likes Rādhā-kuṅḍa.

Caraṅāravindam: He loves Rādhā-kuṅḍa.

Prabhupāda: Determination. No, if he's in difficulty he may come. We can take care of him.

Vipramukhya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I go tomorrow to Delhi, and I'll leave to go to Istanbul.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Go with the blessings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma [CB Antya-khaṅḍa 4.126].

[In every town and village of the world, the chanting of My name will be heard.]

Very good. Kṛṣṅa will save you. Chant Hare Kṛṣṅa and depend on Kṛṣṅa. Then everything's all right. Don't be afraid that you are going to foreign country. There is no foreign country.

Caraṅāravindam: Kṛṣṅa's everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Īśāvāsyam idam—everything Kṛṣṅa's. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. Surrender means that. "Kṛṣṅa, I have surrendered to You. Now if You like, You can protect me. If You like, You can kill me. Whatever You like, You do." That's all. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā nitya-dāsa prati tuwā adhikārā. "I am Your eternal servant. You have got full right. Either You kill me or protect me, that is Your business. But I surrender." Bās. This is surrender. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. This is surrender. "If You put me into inconvenience, then I'm not going to surrender," that is conditional. [laughs] Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, "Whatever You like, You can do." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanān, yathā tathā vā vidadhātu [Cc Antya 20.47].

[Let Kṛṣṅa tightly embrace this maidservant who has fallen at His lotus feet, or let Him trample Me or break My heart by never being visible to Me. He is a debauchee, after all, and can do whatever He likes, but still He alone, and no one else, is the worshipable Lord of My heart.]

"Whatever You like, You do." Yathā tathā vā. Yathā tathā, "Whatever You like. It is up to You. I don't object." Yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo.

Svayambhūr: If one is not a very strong devotee, should one have that same attitude of going...

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. Dṛḍha-vrata. That is perfection. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg 7.28].

[Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination.]

Hari-śauri: No, he's saying if you're not very fixed up, then should you still go out and preach? If you're not very fixed up...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody is fixed. Nobody is perfect. But by rendering service he becomes perfect. The more you render service you become perfect. Not that in one day you become perfect.

Hari-śauri: Because I remember you also said that preaching is not for neophytes. You also said...

Prabhupāda: Neophyte means that kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. One worships the Deity very nicely, but he does not like to do good to others, neither he knows who is Vaiṣṅava, he's neophyte. He is, in the arcanā, he's fixed up, he's doing very nicely. Arcāyām eva haraye. Yaḥ śraddhā..., pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate na tad-bhakteṣu [SB 11.2.47]. One does not understand who is bhakta, na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, and how to do good to others. But he's doing the Deity worship very nicely. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. He's prākṛta. But he can advance when his..., by the grace of Kṛṣṅa he understands, "Here is a Vaiṣṅava. Here is an innocent man. He should be given some enlightenment." That is preacher—when he'll feel for others. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa: "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to You." Tato vimukha-cetasa. And that is Vaiṣṅava, advanced devotee. "For me I have no anxiety." Naivodvije para duratyaya-vai... "There may be so many dangers. I don't care for them." Naiva udvije. "I am not disturbed by all these things." Udvije. Para duratyaya. "Even it is very insurmountable, dangerous position, I don't care." How? Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ [SB 7.9.43]: "Because when I think of You, chant of Your glories, I don't care for that." Then, "You appear to be morose?" "Yes." "Why?" Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa: "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to You. How to do... They are engaged in false activities, māyā-sukhāya, for temporary happiness of the senses. So I am thinking like that. Therefore I am morose. For me I have no anxiety." And actually, what Prahlāda Mahārāja... He was thrown to the fire, he was thrown from the hill and underneath the... He didn't care. "Whatever you'll do, I'll chant Hare Kṛṣṅa." So how he'll be unhappy for himself? He has already passed all these examinations. His father... Not other; his own father. He's helpless. He's under father's care, and the father is giving so much trouble. "All right, if he likes, go on." Everyone expects affection from the father. He's five-years-old boy. Where he shall go? "No, no, no, no. I'll take shelter of Kṛṣṅa, and you can go on with your business. I don't care for your punishment."

Svayambhūr: Such stage of bhakti is very rare, Prabhupāda. To be on such a high platform is very rare. To be fearless.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakti itself is rare. Bhakti is not cheap. Don't think it is cheap commodity. There is a verse..., I now forget. Kṛṣṅa can give you liberation, but He hesitates to give bhakti.

Harikeśa: Muktiṁ dadāti karhicit sma na bhakti-yogam [SB 5.6.18].

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mukti, He is prepared, "All right, take mukti." But when there is bhakti, He has to consider twice. Bhakti means He becomes in the grip of bhakta. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs 5.33].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, who is without a second, who is not subject to decay, is without a beginning, whose form is endless, who is the beginning, and the eternal puruṣa; yet He is a person possessing the beauty of blooming youth.]

Svayambhūr: Are we doing bhakti, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is vidhi-bhakti. And this is rāga-bhakti, spontaneous. Through vidhi-bhakti you have to come to the stage of rāga-bhakti. Without vidhi-bhakti, you'll not... Because you are conditioned. Those who are liberated, they immediately get rāga-bhakti. Not by imitation. That is another thing. Nitya-siddha.

[japa] So I have got all encouragement. Go and preach. Don't be afraid. Simply present yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṅa-upadeśa [Cc Madhya 7.128].

[Instruct everyone to follow the orders of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṅa as they are given in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In this way become a spiritual master and try to liberate everyone in this land.]

Whatever you have learned from Kṛṣṅa, from your guru, just vomit it, that's all. There is no need of becoming very expert. Simply whatever you learned, that's all.

Harikeśa: Lots of kīrtana and prasādam?

Prabhupāda: That's it. That is our main... Anyone will like. Chant mantra, Hare Kṛṣṅa, and give them prasādam, and everyone will take.

Harikeśa: I think purīs and halavā, there isn't a person in the world who doesn't like it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything you'll nicely prepare, tastefully, people will like. [japa] You have learned cooking? I'm asking... Huh? What you have learned? What preparation you can make?

Caraṅāravindam: Many different kinds of preparations.

Prabhupāda: Tell me something.

Harikeśa: Tell Prabhupāda some.

Caraṅāravindam: Ah... Most of the kitchen preparations one gets in India. Iddlis [indistinct list of preparations] ...things like that.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he knows so many things. You have learned something? You?

Vipramukhya: Very little. I can cook halavā and purīs. Simple things. I can cook sweet rice. Sweet rice I can cook.

Prabhupāda: Sweet rice. That is very sweet for you. [laughs] The Europeans and Americans, they like sweet rice. Is it not?

Harikeśa: Oh, yes.

Svayambhūr: I think they like halavā the best, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? If halavā is made nicely, actually it is best. So prepare all these things. Offer to Kṛṣṅa and devotees, and at last you take. Don't take at first. Give all, as much as you like, then you take. Susukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg 9.2].

[This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.]

It is such a nice movement. It is simply pleasing. To execute, it is simply pleasing. And avyayam. Whatever you do is permanent. Whatever little service you have given, it will never be lost. Avyayam. Therefore Nārada Muni says, bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17].

[One who has forsaken his material occupations to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything.]

Even if he's not fully matured and falls down, kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim. Where is loss? Whatever he has done, that is permanent. Because that will grow. If the seed is permanently sown, then it will naturally grow. It may take some time, but it will grow. So he's not loser. If he's little careful, then it will grow. Mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropaṅa, śravaṅa-kīrtana-jale karaye... [Cc Madhya 19.152].

[When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of śravaṅa and kīrtana [hearing and chanting], the seed will begin to sprout.]

Then the creeper goes, grows, and at last takes shelter of Kṛṣṅa. These are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Vipramukhya: When we prepare a feast, we should give and give and give, and when no one wants any more, then...

Prabhupāda: Up until he comes to this point. [indicating fullness] [laughter] Not only this point, but up to this point. Eat as much as you like. We are not miser. You eat. As much you want I shall supply. But don't waste. Eat. Don't waste.

Hari-śauri: This morning you were saying that fasting is very good. [laughter]

Harikeśa: I was just thinking about that.

Prabhupāda: No. Not prasādam. I never said. No, those who want to eat... Fasting... One who has not developed Kṛṣṅa consciousness, for him fasting. And one who takes pleasure, "Oh, it is Kṛṣṅa's pleasure, or Kṛṣṅa's food. I'll take." This is the idea. So we are not devotees, therefore we should first fast. And those who are devotees, they'll take as much as they like. I was telling fasting because I am not a devotee. [laughs] For me, fasting is good. If I eat more—atyāhāraḥ. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca, ṣaḍbhir bhaktir praṅaśyati [Upadeśāmṛta 2].

[One's devotional service is spoiled when he becomes too entangled in the following six activities: (1) eating more than necessary or collecting more funds than required; (2) overendeavoring for mundane things that are very difficult to obtain; (3) talking unnecessarily about mundane subject matters; (4) practicing the scriptural rules and regulations only for the sake of following them and not for the sake of spiritual advancement, or rejecting the rules and regulations of the scriptures and working independently or whimsically; (5) associating with worldly-minded persons who are not interested in Kṛṣṅa consciousness; and (6) being greedy for mundane achievements.]

Hari-śauri: If you can appreciate kṛṣṅa-prasādam without filling up to the neck...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is for the devotee. A devotee can eat, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu was eating. Govinda, His servant, complained, "Sir, so many things are lying here, and everyone asks, 'Whether Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taken my preparation?' 'Oh, yes, He has taken.' So I have to speak so many lies. You don't take. What can I do?" He said, "All right, bring it. Bring it." So He began to eat for one hundred men's foodstuff stocked. He finished. Then He asked, "Any more?" So now only the bags are there. Everything finished. [laughs] So He ate everything, one after another, one after another, one after another. "All right. Bring, bring, bring." So He can eat. We cannot. [break] This water is going there? [referring to fountain] It is going only one side and not other side? [Caraṅāravindam explains about water flow—indistinct] [japa]

Svayambhūr: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it a sign of advancement in devotional service...

Prabhupāda: Branch?

Svayambhūr: Advancement. If somebody wants to preach, is that the sign of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Svayambhūr: That's the first sign.

Prabhupāda: When one is very anxious to preach, that is advancement.

Svayambhūr: And if one is not very anxious to preach, he is not very advanced.

Prabhupāda: Then he should stick to Deity worship very nicely, following the rules and regulations, cleansing. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau. This nitya, you take very seriously.

Svayambhūr: And then when he becomes advanced, then he will...

Prabhupāda: Automatically he will be anxious to preach. Automatically.

Svayambhūr: Ultimately.

Prabhupāda: Not ultimately. Automatically.

Svayambhūr: Oh, automatically.

Prabhupāda: Just like in a small time, our that Kṛṣṅa dāsa? [child, son of French pūjārī] He knows English, he knows French, he knows... What does it mean? He has heard it; now he'll want to speak. That is the natural sequence. If anyone has listened from the authority about Kṛṣṅa, he wants to speak again. That is preaching. Not that "I have listened about Kṛṣṅa, that's all right." No. When he wants to speak to others, that is advancement. That is wanted. Śravaṅaṁ kīrtanam. That is the test that he has advanced. Nāma, rūpa, guṅa, līlā, parikara, vaisiṣṭya.

Svayambhūr: Does he have to speak immediately, or he can speak after some time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not immediately. Immediately how you can speak? Unless he knows, what he'll speak? It is better not to speak than speaking all nonsense. He must learn first of all what is the philosophy, what is the science. Then he can speak. [break]

Vipramukhya: These Turks are yavanas? Demons and yavanas?

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṅa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṅa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṅa. Paṅḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg 5.18].

[The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṅa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste]]

We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṅa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṅa. Forgetting Kṛṣṅa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's kṛṣṅa-dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṅa-dāsa [Cc Madhya 20.108].

[It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kṛṣṅa because he is the marginal energy of Kṛṣṅa and a manifestation simultaneously one with and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Kṛṣṅa has three varieties of energy.]

Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that "Here is a Christian," "Here is a Muhammadan," "Here is a Hindu"? He takes as patient, never mind what he is, and he gives treatment. He never thinks that "Here is a Christian patient," "Here is a Muhammadan patient." He is patient. "Give me this. Bring him medicine." That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan patient"? Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient. Special care should be taken for him"? No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Svayambhūr: If he doesn't have any money he may... [end]