Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe M.L.A.

Mr. Tombe: After all, even if it is thrown out...

Prabhupāda: That is also answered in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by very strong word. Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. If the public is like dogs, camel, hogs and asses, so what is the value of their election? He'll elect another big dog or camel. So there is chaos.

Mr. Tombe: Then how to throw out good leadership?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Good leadership means you must learn how to lead people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ [Bg 3.21].

[Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues.]

If the śreṣṭha, the leader, is ideal, then others will follow. But if the leader is not ideal, if he is not in the awareness of things, then people will be misguided.

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from villages...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṅa. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg 10.2]. He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from. That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṅa says... Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṅa, that's all. That is their... All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there—Kṛṣṅa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṅa. So if you learn from Kṛṣṅa you become perfect leader. But we do not take Kṛṣṅa's instruction. We manufacture our own ideas. That is failure. Otherwise in our country so many learned sages, especially Kṛṣṅa is there, and their books are there, their instructions are there. We do not take them. Still we become leader. So what kind of leading? He's imperfect, so he cannot lead. Then there will be some mistake and chaos. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said... He said, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc Ādi 9.41]. You understand little Bengali?

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra [Cc Ādi 9.41]

[One who has taken his birth as a human being in the land of India [Bhārata-varṣa] should make his life successful and work for the benefit of all other people.]

So Indians, they can make their life perfect by following this Vedic literature, and they can lead the whole world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. First of all you become perfect by taking lessons from the Vedic literature. And then you do good to others. But without making yourself perfect, if you try to do good to others, that is chaos. Then again comes, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ [SB 7.5.31].

[Persons who are strongly entrapped by the consciousness of enjoying material life, and who have therefore accepted as their leader or guru a similar blind man attached to external sense objects, cannot understand that the goal of life is to return home, back to Godhead, and engage in the service of Lord Viṣṅu. As blind men guided by another blind man miss the right path and fall into a ditch, materially attached men led by another materially attached man are bound by the ropes of fruitive labor, which are made of very strong cords, and they continue again and again in materialistic life, suffering the threefold miseries.]

Some blind men following another blind man, what will be the result? The present Indians, we have lost our own culture. We have rejected our own culture. Still we are leading people. There is chaotic condition. So this Kṛṣṅa consciousness movement is to correct this mistake. So leaders like you should cooperate.

Mr. Tombe: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India... If the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our... Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the supreme leader, Kṛṣṅa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṅa, the supreme leader, so far it has become successful. So everyone can do that. Where is the difficulty? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam [Bg 4.2].

[This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.]

If we follow the paramparā system it is not difficult.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: These all are Prabhupāda's books. Eighty books.

Prabhupāda: Eighty-four books we have..., I have written within ten years. And our publication house, Kṛṣṅa consciousness is the first in the world for publishing religious and philosophical books. We are selling not less than six lakhs' worth books daily.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: This is Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, publishing division. [indistinct comments to another devotee]

Mr. Tombe: I have got only a few of them now. I would like to pick up...

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Here, these are... We only have sample copies in India. So I'll tell Girirāja to bring you some. These are only sample copies for Prabhupāda's display. [end]