Evening Darśana

Prabhupāda: How do they speak there is no soul? What is the reason?

Acyutānanda: Their reason is they cannot see the soul.

Prabhupāda: Then they have no intelligence. Mūḍha.

Acyutānanda: When we dig a hole here and there's water, within a few weeks there's fish and frogs. They say that is...

Prabhupāda: Jalajā. First jalajā nava-lakṣāṅi. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṅi [Padma Purāṅa]. Not only one variety, but nine lakhs of varieties they come out from the water.

Acyutānanda: But where do they come? They're in the water, latent in the water.

Prabhupāda: They're alive. Sarva-ga. Therefore we say that "Why not in the fire?" If there is life in water, why not in the fire? You cannot see. You have no eyes. There is life, and Kṛṣṅa says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ [Bg 2.23]. Fire does not burn the living being, so why they will be not in fire? And Kṛṣṅa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham [Bg 4.1].

[The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku.]

He entered the sun planet.

Acyutānanda: So nothing material can divide the soul, but spiritual, when it enters the spiritual world, then it is dividing.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of dividing

Acyutānanda: Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Sanātana. That is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṅa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ [Bg 15.7]. Sanātana means eternally they are divided. And Kṛṣṅa says further in the Second Chapter that...

Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam [Bg 2.12].

[Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.]

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You, Me and all these kings, they were existing—the individual. You, Me and... They're existing now, and they'll continue to exist." So where there is oneness? All individual eternally, as aṁśa, aṁśī, this finger and the body. You can say this finger is my body, but finger is not the body, whole body. Finger is finger. Not that if Kṛṣṅa's body is eternal, the finger is also eternal. Not that today it is finger, tomorrow is whole body. That is defective, Māyāvāda philosophy. Finger always exists as finger. Kṛṣṅa is eternal, His finger is eternal, but the finger and the body is the same material. They're not different. They become different when they come to material world without touch of Kṛṣṅa. This finger is finger even it is cut, but it is useless. When this finger is cut and fallen in the ground it will be said, "finger of Swāmījī" or somebody. It is not anything... But because it is cut from the whole, it has no value. One screw from this machine is the same screw. But when it is separate from this screw [machine], it has no value. But when you want to add to it—you go to purchase that screw—it will cost you five rupees. But without this machine, nobody cares for that screw.

So our position is like that.

kṛṣṅa-bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare [Prema-vivarta]

As soon as he separated from Kṛṣṅa to become independent, that is māyā. He has..., loses all value, spiritual value. And in connection with māyā, it appears in different forms. And, the example is given, as the moon reflected in the water, and when the water is agitated, it is sometimes round, sometimes straight, sometimes broken, sometimes..., like that. So we are eternal spirit soul. As soon as we come in contact with māyā, by agitation of the mind we assume different forms of life—and suffer. Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. And that abhilāṣa is the agitation. The same example, that, is given. Moon is sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes broken, sometimes... It is nothing. It is neither broken, neither round, nor... It is. It is as it is. But on account of agitation of the material body, it appears sometimes demigod, sometimes man, sometimes hog, sometimes cat—change, change of the body, 8,400,000 different change. [aside:] You can keep it there. All right.

We have to stop this change, and that is the mission of human life: no more cat, no more dog, no more demigod, but eternally servitor of Kṛṣṅa as cowherd boys and gopīs, or whatever you like. As trees, as calves, as cows, as Yamunā water, as Vṛndāvana-bhūmi—everything spiritual. Enjoy. Somebody's enjoying spiritual happiness by becoming Yamunā water. Somebody's enjoying as flower of Vṛndāvana, somebody as calf, somebody as cow, somebody as father, as mother, as friend, as conjugal friend, gopīs—all concentrated in Kṛṣṅa. That is Vṛndāvana. Center is Kṛṣṅa. Yaśodā-nandana... What is that? Braja-jana-rañjana... Huh?

Hari-śauri: Gokula-rañjana...

Prabhupāda: Yāmuna-tīra-bana-cārī. Rādhā-mādhava kuñja-bihārī, yāmuna-tīra-bana-cārī. So Yamunā is spiritual. Yāmuna-tīra is spiritual. The varieties, the Māyāvādī cannot understand. Āruhya kṛcchreṅa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32].

[[Someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet.]

They want varieties, but don't accept spiritual variety. Therefore again material life. No other alternative. Āruhya kṛcchreṅa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti. Again material varieties, philanthropic work, political work, this work, that work. First of all they give up—brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, the jagan mithyā. And again they come out to open school. Why you come here again? Āruhya kṛcchreṅa param..., patanty adhaḥ. Why? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. They could not capture the spiritual varieties. Anādṛta. As soon as there is spiritual varieties, they think it is māyā. That is Māyāvāda. There is no māyā. Spiritual variety, there is no māyā. Variety is the mother of enjoyment.

[others enter—Bengali with guests]

Sva-karmaṅā tam abhyarcya. [Bengali]

Indian man: Operation Kṛṣṅa consciousness and destination Vaikuṅṭha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [Bengali] Multi-varieties, all spiritual. Ānanda-cinmaya-rāsa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ... [Bs 5.37]. [

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, residing in His own realm, Goloka, with Rādhā, resembling His own spiritual figure, the embodiment of the ecstatic potency possessed of the sixty-four artistic activities, in the company of Her confidantes [sakhīs], embodiments of the extensions of Her bodily form, permeated and vitalized by His ever-blissful spiritual rāsa.]

Bengali] There is nothing material. Everything ānanda-cinmaya-rāsa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ. Just like Brahmā took away—again He expanded. For one year nobody could understand that it is all expansion of Kṛṣṅa. Kṛṣṅa has become calf, Kṛṣṅa has become cow, Kṛṣṅa has become a cowherd boy—everything. Then Brahmā saw, "Oh, I have done mistake." He can immediately expand into many thousands forms. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṅa-puruṣam... [Bs 5.33].

[I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is inaccessible to the Vedas, but obtainable by pure unalloyed devotion of the soul, who is without a second, who is not subject to decay, is without a beginning, whose form is endless, who is the beginning, and the eternal puruṣa; yet He is a person possessing the beauty of blooming youth.]

Hmm. What is that clipping? Go on reading.

Satsvarūpa: A number of clippings. This is a headline, that a new president, Carter, pardons draft evaders.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Carter?

Satsvarūpa: Previously there were so many young men in America who evaded the draft during the Vietnam war, and the government was looking for them. But now the new president is saying, "Let us forget the past. I forgive all these draft evaders. Let them come out and be good citizens."

Acyutānanda: Because if they have another war, nobody will go and fight that war again. They will all leave America. So they want America to be very good now, so that everyone will love America and come back. Because if there's another war nobody will join the army. They'll just leave.

Prabhupāda: So why there is war? They cannot stop war?

Acyutānanda: They start wars. [Prabhupāda chuckles] And in the chaos they make profit.

Prabhupāda: That means there are many like you.

Acyutānanda: Yes. [Prabhupāda chuckling] They're all in Canada, Mexico.

Prabhupāda: And Canada give them good shelter.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: People is proud to give American shelter. Is it not?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What other?

Satsvarūpa: This is an article... This is not very new. I don't know where all these articles came from, but it's about our movement in Chicago. It says, "The path of Kṛṣṅa is like a sharpened razor. Whether selling incense or salvation, this band refuses to split hairs." [laughter] "Uncompromising," it describes us.

Prabhupāda: That is Kali's sign. Lāvaṅyaṁ keśa-dhāraṅam [SB 12.2.6]. Five thousand years ago it was predicted, and now it is happening. Just see. This is śāstra. Lāvaṅyaṁ keśa-dhāraṅam. "Younger generation will think by keeping long hair they have become beautiful." It is mentioned in Bhāgavata. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage means sex life." As soon as there is disturbance in rati, it is divorce.

Satsvarūpa: This is very old. This is two years old. "The deep roots of India's food plight."

Prabhupāda: That's not... New...

Acyutānanda: I think India has the whole world fooled, thinking that they have no food, so that they can get aid. Actually there is... Everywhere I go, there's more than enough food. Even if people don't give money, they give food. And the hippies come to India because they get food. There's so much food in India. Everyone will feed you, all the people.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are feeding. We want to feed more.

Acyutānanda: But they make propaganda that they're starving to the whole world, that "We're starving nation," and they get aid. Powdered milk... Powdered milk is sold, though. Government takes that, and they sell it.

Prabhupāda: All right, let us preach. That is our only business. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc Ādi 17.31].

[One who thinks himself lower than the grass, who is more tolerant than a tree, and who does not expect personal honor yet is always prepared to give all respect to others can very easily always chant the holy name of the Lord.]

[Bengali with Bhakti-caru Swami]

Mr. Mitra. This is family.

[Bengali with guest about Mr. Mitra]

If you can find out, bring him some way or other. He is very qualified man, but he's misguided. I think he did not like to live separate from his wife. That is his demands, maybe. [Bengali with guest] Very qualified man.

Pradyumna: Yes. English, Hindi, Bengali...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And he wanted to live with me. So what happened to him? [Bengali with guest] Now we want some Bengali literature—Bengali, Hindi. [Bengali with guest] He has got command of the right... [Bengali with guest]

Pradyumna: No. It's new edition.

Bhakti-caru: It's an old edition

Pradyumna: It's an old?

Prabhupāda: You find out that man.

[Bengali with guest] ...chai nāhi, drinking nāhi, smoking nāhi. It became too much inconvenience. Wife is separated. This is tapasya. It cannot be accepted by ordinary person. Tapasā brahmacaryeṅa [SB 6.1.13].

[To concentrate the mind, one must observe a life of celibacy and not fall down. One must undergo the austerity of voluntarily giving up sense enjoyment. One must then control the mind and senses, give charity, be truthful, clean and nonviolent, follow the regulative principles and regularly chant the holy name of the Lord. Thus a sober and faithful person who knows the religious principles is temporarily purified of all sins performed with his body, words and mind. These sins are like the dried leaves of creepers beneath a bamboo tree, which may be burned by fire although their roots remain to grow again at the first opportunity.]

Tapasya begins from brahmacarya. And brahmacarya means "no," so many. No "yes." Only "no's." "Not this, not this, not this." It is very difficult. Therefore the Americans are surprised: "How our sons have accepted so many 'no's' unless there is brainwash? And this man knows some mind control, and he's controlling their mind, independence. Bās. Deprogram. Capture them." This is the... "How our sons can accept so many 'no's'? " And important items—no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication. Everything, life, is no. [laughs] Rāyarāma said, "It is simply 'no's.' " He left. What is their daily necessity, and all "no."

The same thing is happening now, that "How they have accepted the 'no's'? It is brainwash, mind control." Lord Zetland said, when he was offered these "no's," he said, "Impossible for us. We cannot give up this." And I was also thinking in the beginning, that "As soon as I propose this 'no's,' they will say, 'Go home.' [laughs] No more preaching." And it is Kṛṣṅa's desire, they accepted so many 'no's.' I was not hopeful that these American young boys or gentlemen will accept these 'no's,' because I heardLord Zetland said, "It is impossible." If they go to a..., one goes to a restaurant, he must find out one illicit woman. Is it not? It is not the practice, that they should go to a restaurant with one girl? Otherwise he's vagabond. [Bengali with guest] He was ten years in London. He has good experience in villages.

[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṅa. [Bengali] Sit down. Sit down.

[long pause] [Bengali with guests]

[break] "...that "You cannot become happy without Me. Therefore I advise you, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg 18.66], aham tvāṁ sarva-pā... I'll give you..."

[break] Kṛṣṅa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Therefore only intelligent person is he who is Kṛṣṅa conscious. All fools. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg 7.13].

[Deluded by the three modes [goodness, passion and ignorance], the whole world does not know Me who am above the modes and inexhaustible.]

[Bengali] Tesam kleva-avisisyate[?] nanyate... [Bengali]

[break] One daiynika[?] what is that? If he, that time, one paisa, [laughs] if he could collect two annas, oh, he would encourage him like anything.

Indian man: Eight paisa. Two annas, eight paisa.

Prabhupāda: Former paisa, when sixty-four paisa was one rupee. Now hundred n.p. equal to one. The purchasing power of money was big. Now thirty percent has gone up, but people's income has not gone up so much. Thirty percent, thirty times. Formerly gold was priced twenty rupees per tolā. Now it is six hundred rupees. So thirty times. But people have not increased their income thirty times. My father was earning two hundred fifty to three hundred per month. So we were middle class. So now thirty times of three hundred means nine thousand. So which middle-class man has increased so much? Middle-class man now, if he's earning one thousand rupees he's considered very well-to-do. But what is that one thousand rupees? Nothing. My father had from one business, one hundred rupees, from another business sixty rupees, and we had a house rented, eighty rupees. Eighty rupees, sixty rupees and hundred rupees. How much?

Devotee: Two hundred and forty.

Prabhupāda: Two hundred forty, plus something more. Utmost, three hundred. And in our house four, five guests was always present. It didn't matter. Besides that, he was inviting some Vaiṣṅava, some sādhu. He married four daughters, and we were eating very sumptuously, daily two and half kg milk. Two annas per kg. Very nice milk. This man was coming from outside Calcutta. So we were so many children. We would stand, "Give some phāo." Two half kg's milk and half kg phāo. He wouldn't mind.

Indian man: Half kg, three, phāo?

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Because we are so many children, little, little, little. Krishna was asking for phāo. That is the system in India. You purchase something from some vendor and ask little more phāo. He'll give. That is included in the price. [Bengali] Phāo? Especially children, they'll ask, "Phāo dā." They'll give gladly.

Indian man: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: Ask them to come inside. [Bengali to new guests] Come inside. [Bengali] [end]