Morning Talk

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṅa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṅa [SB 10.2.32],

[[Someone may say that aside from devotees, who always seek shelter at the Lord's lotus feet, there are those who are not devotees but who have accepted different processes for attaining salvation. What happens to them? In answer to this question, Lord Brahmā and the other demigods said:] O lotus-eyed Lord, although nondevotees who accept severe austerities and penances to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence is impure. They fall down from their position of imagined superiority because they have no regard for Your lotus feet.]

great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogī, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of a nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to a certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position—to become associate of Kṛṣṅa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them—he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṅa. This is the science, Kṛṣṅa consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmī to purchase so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmī had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No, even Birla doesn't have.

Prabhupāda: I have given this example, our court case, that the case would have been continued for years—but one day. Even though there was some difficulty, it is finished. So our enemies, they tried to block our march, but we shall kick on their head and progress our aims—if we stick to our principles. These things I have discussed this night. How do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Practically? Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Very practical. Current. People like that, to read current.

Prabhupāda: This is fact. So always remain very, very faithful to Kṛṣṅa and guru. Guru-kṛṣṅa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc Madhya 19.151].

[According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṅa. By the mercy of both Kṛṣṅa and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service.]

Remain... So don't care for anything, any, the deprogrammer, and what are others? Eh? What are others?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Well, those are the... Deprogrammers.

Prabhupāda: That is the... Now at least in America nobody can do that, deprogramming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No, they still can.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They still can.

Prabhupāda: Can? The... How?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: This court case has not stopped them from deprogramming. It has established... It's a precedent case, which makes it very difficult. But they can still try. In different states they are still pressing for other laws. It wasn't...

Prabhupāda: But the airport authorities, they're also coming favorably.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Gradually they'll come. We haven't got to be afraid of all enemies. That is the point.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That's the point. Yeah. Just like the...

Prabhupāda: We have not minimized our program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No, we're increasing our program.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Being afraid of them, we have not decreased our activities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yeah. That's the point. These other groups in America, they lost their court cases, and they are either kicked out or minimizing their programs. They're hiding now. But we are increasing.

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: The residents of Vṛndāvana, they do not fear the enemies, the demons who are coming.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: The residents of Vṛndāvana, they were never fearful.

Prabhupāda: No. [laughs] They know Kṛṣṅa is there. As soon as there is danger... There is torrents of rain. Innocent, they do not know. Kṛṣṅa: "Yes! Come on." They come, "Come on under the umbrella. Let there be rain. Now they are safe." Then Indra could understand, "Oh, the challenge... My Lord..." He was surprised that "A boy, cowherd boy, these people, they're worshiping as God? Oh, that may be..." Brahmā challenged, "This cowherd boy..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Didn't they know who Kṛṣṅa was?

Prabhupāda: Who Kṛṣṅa was, they knew it. But "This cowherd boy is Kṛṣṅa?" Just like we are also despising these so-called avatāras. That does not mean we do not know Kṛṣṅa. We know actually Kṛṣṅa. Therefore we despise all these rascals, "avatāra." Their master is Kṛṣṅa they know. They're servant. Otherwise how they are devatā? But the mistake was that "My master has come..., has become a cowherd boy and playing with insignificant and boys and girls, and He is my master?" That is going on. Sūrayaḥ. Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. You know this, the Bhāgavata? Muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Great, great stalwart demigods, they also become bewildered to understand. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ sva-rāṭ tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Just like such a big lawyer, he is asking, "Whether Kṛṣṅa is fictitious or fact?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: People are in so much...

Prabhupāda: Everyone takes this Kṛṣṅa, Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā is a story.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes. They have no training.

Prabhupāda: Not they accept that this Kṛṣṅa, historical Kṛṣṅa, He is the person, Supreme Person. Ninety-nine point nine percent, they do not believe. "It is a fictitious story written about God, but not that this Kṛṣṅa is God." This is their opinion. Therefore Dr. Radhakrishnan: "No, no, not this Kṛṣṅa personally." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ [Bg 9.34]—he is guiding: "Don't be attached to this Kṛṣṅa." Doesn't want. He was a very good gentleman, at heart devotee of God, but he could not understand Kṛṣṅa. He used to say to me... I was very intimate with, with him, with Dr. Radhakrishnan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You were intimate with him?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I used to go whenever I liked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I didn't know that.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I had many letters, correspondence with him. He promised that "After retirement I shall join." Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yet when we went to visit him in Madras, I guess he was so sick...

Prabhupāda: No, that time he was finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: He could not even recognize. He was brainless.

Prabhupāda: No... I used to go to see him even at his house without engagement. And he liked me. He gave me many.... The Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, this Nectar of Devotion, he gave some... I wrote correspondence with him. So he used to say, "Kindly pray to God for my salvation." He was not void. He was fearing God. But he did not accept this Kṛṣṅa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī. Otherwise he was a brāhmaṅa and learned scholar, God-fearing, everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yeah, he's very well respected still.

Prabhupāda: In my paper I criticized him, "Scholars Deluded." I gave him criticism.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: [laughs] Even then you were doing that. It's always amazing how, to me, you can practically, whenever you meet these big men, you kick them on the head and then you make them like it. Just like this lawyer. You told him, "This dog civilization..." Practically you were telling him that "You are acting like that." But still, he liked it. And at the paṅḍāl you were doing the same.

Prabhupāda: Still, the Chief Minister applauded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Because you present it so truthfully that they have to admit and look at themselves and admit, "Yes, you are right. We are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses."

Prabhupāda: I gave practical example, hanging in railway...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Train.

Prabhupāda: One gentleman came: "Sir, you are..." So he might be one of the hanging passengers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: [laughs] That was funny. When you said that, the Chief Minister was laughing. At that point he was smiling. Everyone in that crowd was thinking, "Yes. He's talking about me."

Prabhupāda: Is that civilization? Human being should be calm and quiet, peaceful and advanced in Kṛṣṅa consciousness. There must be four divisions: brāhmaṅa, kṣatriya, everything. Everything is lost. From the very morning, "Where is bread? Where is bread?" We have no fixed income, but we are so pure[?]. We are maintaining big establishment. Who has got so big establishment? And what is our asset? Asset is only Kṛṣṅa. For ordinary karmīs to maintain such house and such big establishment...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Not possible. No one can do it.

Prabhupāda: He'll have insomnia, cannot sleep at night. What would have been the cost of the establishment? So many men are working.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What to speak of worldwide.

Prabhupāda: This is one only.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: One of one hundred.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No, it's not possible. Neither it's possible that... Just like yesterday Kṛṣṅa sends you a man who says, "Sir, I would like to translate your books into Russian." You did not go canvassing for Russian translator. Every single thing is coming, Kṛṣṅa is sending to you.

Prabhupāda: So take shelter of Kṛṣṅa's lotus feet. That is the only way. Then everything is all right.

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṅya-yaśo murāreḥ bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām [SB 10.14.58]

[For those who have accepted the boat of the lotus feet of the Lord, who is the shelter of the cosmic manifestation and is famous as Murāri, the enemy of the Mura demon, the ocean of the material world is like the water contained in a calf's hoof-print. Their goal is paraṁ padam, Vaikuṅṭha, the place where there are no material miseries, not the place where there is danger at every step.]

Bhāgavata is giving you this knowledge. Therefore everyone should read Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. So this is the paramparā system, we are giving. In future if they follow, they will also be delivered. This is wanted. We have made some plan. We are making. So this will be left. When we shall die, this will be left. And anyone who will accept this paramparā system will be promoted to Kṛṣṅa consciousness.

[Upendra enters]

Upendra: Hare Kṛṣṅa, Prabhupāda. Do you have anything...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Upendra: ...to request?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Same thing as yesterday.

Prabhupāda: The same thing.

Upendra: Same thing as yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Same thing. Little fruit and... I think this nim, green liniment, you make like...[?] Show him how to do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: For applying nim plaster on the foot you make it into a paste, then put. And then some bandage over it to keep it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Some bandages. And it draws it out. You understand?

Prabhupāda: You can make nim paste, and make it hot. Apply that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: "Make it hot" means...?

Prabhupāda: Just like in a pot, you put on the fire. It will be hot. And apply it, and over that, one leaf. Otherwise, it will leak out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Over that, one nim leaf.

Prabhupāda: Nim leaf or any leaf, under the bandage. You can do it nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Ācchā. Paste, a leaf and then a bandage.

Prabhupāda: If there is no need of bandage, then you can make...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: There might be, because dhotī will become spoiled by the juices.

Prabhupāda: If you apply twice, thrice...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Finished.

Prabhupāda: Simple life, Kṛṣṅa shelter, [indistinct]. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg 9.22].

[But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form-to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.]

Ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ... All the difficulties will be overcome as long as you stick to the..., follow ācārya. Others will come and go. Make things a little..., correctly going on. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Thank you. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...so that he can...[?] "I love them best." Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu... [Bg 18.69]. "In the human society he is My most dear servant." It is clearly stated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What is the reason for that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: He's preaching His glory. He is everything, and these rascals are denying. And He comes: "No, no, no, no. It is wrong." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg 18.66]. And a preacher means he is doing that, training people how to surrender to Kṛṣṅa. Will he not be...? He is... A preacher is giving real sense. To awaken this sense, Kṛṣṅa has to come personally. And he is doing the same work: "Surrender to Kṛṣṅa." How much great service it is. Prahlāda Mahārāja... He is asking his father that "Why you are so inimical to Kṛṣṅa? Better surrender. He has given you so much strength, so much power." That was... Prahlāda Mahārāja has given him. In spite of so much trouble given to him, he was speaking the same thing repeatedly: "Father, don't do this. Become a devotee." Stubborn. He was giving advice. This is the struggle between devotee and nondevotee. Therefore devotees are so dear to Kṛṣṅa. Despite all opposition, meeting all difficulties, they will say, "No, there is God. We must surrender." So he'll not be very dear? Just like soldiers for the country. They are meeting danger.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They are very much glorified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the government gives them all facilities because they are dear patriots, laying down their life. During war everything is controlled, but they are supplied with immense... One store is destroyed; another one store is ready. Those who have gone to the warfield, they are... Because they have got that store of food and everything, sufficient, whatever they like, want. Now, in one point they have to go away. So how they can take the store? So from one point to another point there is another store. This store is blown, that enemy may not take advantage of it. This is going on, hundreds and thousands of worth of goods—blown, cut. Because they are going to another point, and the enemies will take advantage of the store, therefore they have blown it. Therefore in war there is store scarcity. And that Sadānanda, you know that, my German Godbrother? So he was lean and thin, tall. So I was asking him that "I have heard that the Germans are very stout and strong, so why you are so lean and thin?" So he gave me..., gave me condition that in the first war he was a child. So there was so much control, only weekly he could get a little butter. He showed a, this spot, like that. "Because we were children, we were supplied little butter, weekly this much. There was no nourishment. And we had to eat anything nonsense." Germans, they were given much tribulation, all sides. Still, they fought the French. All sides, enemies. But still, the Germans are well-to-do. I have seen. In other countries they are well-to-do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They are very respected. German mark is.

Prabhupāda: No, their position, economic position, is also better than France, England. I have seen it. Even in the villages they are well-to-do. They have recouped all they have lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Oh, yeah. Belgium, you go through Belgium, it's still devastated. And Germany is completely built up.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I think in... For culture, France, and for improvement, economic development, they have done in Germany.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: And Britain?

Prabhupāda: Britain is... They are shopkeepers. Hitler gave them this title, "Shopkeepers' Nation." That was his determination: "The shopkeepers' nation, I shall turn them again to be shopkeepers, not the empire-holder." That he did. Although he was finished—Germany was finished on account of this—but they executed their determination, British empire finished. That they did. After the second war, British...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Finished.

Prabhupāda: Now they are poverty-stricken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So Hitler's grudge against the Englishmen, that is fruitful. Actually he owned the war.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: He won. He won the war.

Prabhupāda: Because that was his determination: "I shall finish this British nation. Everywhere they have got flag, all over the world, I shall finish." That he did. And Britishers saved because the Americans joined. Otherwise... Churchill, he removed all valuables from London to Canada—all papers, all gold stock, everything. There is a book about this. Just like when there is danger, you rush to save some valuables. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yeah, that's what you take first.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So British Empire, so many things in London, he all removed to Canada.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Then after the war?

Prabhupāda: Then after war they might have brought again.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yeah, just like when the Muslims attacked India they removed the Deities from Vṛndāvana to Jaipur.

Prabhupāda: Jaipur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: So that shows that the Indian people know what the most valuable thing is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Valuable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Kṛṣṅa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṅa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: When Viṣṅujana had his bus, they were traveling in Texas...

Prabhupāda: Viṣṅujana's committed suicide, I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What?

Prabhupāda: Viṣṅujana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no information.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No. None at all. Everybody thinks that he must have drowned himself in one of the rivers here in India, because the day that he disappeared he asked you a question, out of... Just without any reason he asked you to explain the disappearance of Junior Haridāsa. That was on the roof at Māyāpur. Thereafter, that morning, he was not seen again. And neither, I think... He's not in the West, in America. No one has seen him. His parents have searched for him. They cannot find him.

Prabhupāda: Even if he has committed suicide, he'll be saved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: If he did that, he'll be...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He lamented. He was very grave[?]. Yoga-bhraṣṭo 'sanjāyate. He'll get another good opportunity to develop Kṛṣṅa consciousness—until finally he reaches to Kṛṣṅa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yeah. And that seems to be more in fitting with his character, very, very... I don't think he left. I don't think he left and went back into the material world. It doesn't seem to fit his [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: All right. [end]