Room Conversation

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: ...the same man that Ātreya Ṛṣi went and met.

Prabhupāda: Any sane man will receive our...

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: He's helping us in Karachi to open a temple now. And in Lebanon also...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is accepting. It is for all, even Communist countries. Everyone is accepting our literature, our attempt. That's a fact. And you do not heard about the report in the South Africa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: South Africa.

Prabhupāda: South Africa, the Europeans hate the Indians like anything. Now they're receiving our literature. That means they will now appreciate Indian culture. They'll understand that India has got some substance.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: This is very important point to bring up even with the government.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhas Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, National Army?

Yaśomatīnandana: Indian National Army

Prabhupāda: When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense, that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence [laughter] while, "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be "Oh..." The [indistinct] Colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the [indistinct]. He had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was... Independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What was that about loincloth?

Prabhupāda: Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting Bhagavad-gītā, that "In Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence." Such a rascal. Bhagavad-gītā begins with, with this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ [Bg 1.1]:

[Dhṛtarāṣṭra said: O Sañjaya, after assembling in the place of pilgrimage at Kurukṣetra, what did my sons and the sons of Pāṅḍu do, being desirous to fight?]

"Two parties desiring to fight." That is the beginning. Yudhyasva mām anusmara [Bg 8.7].

[Therefore, Arjuna, you should always think of Me in the form of Kṛṣṅa and at the same time carry out your prescribed duty of fighting. With your activities dedicated to Me and your mind and intelligence fixed on Me, you will attain Me without doubt.]

And Kṛṣṅa's whole life is yudhyasva, fighting. Before His birth, plan was being made how to kill Him. This is yuddha. Kaṁsa was planning. And after His birth He had to go away, just to make a show, from His father's house to another house incognito to avoid yuddha. And when yuddha began, three months old, He killed Pūtanā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Violence was there. Violence from the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Then Tṛṅāvarta, big, big yuddha. Then Aghāsura, Bakāsura, Śakaṭāsura, this asura, this asura, that asura, in childhood, in Vṛndāvana, so many. Then, when He went to Mathurā, big, big elephant, big, big wrestler. Then Kaṁsa. Hmm? Then, after Kaṁsa, then Jarāsandha, Pauṅḍraka, then kidnapping His wives. Fighting, only fighting. And these rascals say, "I do not like this Kṛṣṅa." You have heard that? He is creating his own Kṛṣṅa, this Gandhi.

Yaśomatīnandana: They also say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṅa of Mahābhārata is different from the Kṛṣṅa of Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: Just see. How they are distorting history and everything. And in Mahābhārata... He's advertising himself as staunch student of Bhagavad-gītā, and he is distorting the meaning in so many ways. That is his business. And he's mahātmā. Mahātmā means mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya... [Bg 9.13].

[O son of Pṛthā, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible.]

Mahātmā is a great devotee who has no other business than to obey the orders of Kṛṣṅa. Bhajanti. Bhajana-sevā. And he is discarding, distorting, and he's mahātmā. Just see. If you study, scrutinizing, these men have done greatest disservice to the country, to the people in general. And they have received no result. And I have worked ten years only, with Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: So much result.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The rascals are so blind. Phalena paricīyate. The result is here.

Yaśomatīnandana: And he's called father of the nation.

Prabhupāda: Therefore your nation is like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Nation is so poor now.

Prabhupāda: Poor means... The party, Congress Party, practically achieved. Credit is there. And they are now ruined. This is their progress.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: They're fighting even more now. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Surabhi Swami is going back to Bombay...

Prabhupāda: So what can I do? Money. Money is... If there is here, you can take. Surabhi Swami comes for money, I know that. He'll give me some plan. If there is money, we'll pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: How much money do you want?

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: I had a meeting in Bombay by Girirāja...

Prabhupāda: Meeting or no meeting, you want money and squander. That I know. So if there is money, he'll give you. Throw away.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They want a lot of money, though.

Prabhupāda: Lot of money give and throw. What can be done? I know.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: We can explain to Tamāla Kṛṣṅa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They're asking for twenty-two lakhs of rupees.

Prabhupāda: No, give twenty-two crores, I don't mind. Then do it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: It will be paid back starting...

Prabhupāda: All right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Rāmeśvara promised us to pay it back.

Prabhupāda: All right. That's all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Then we can get the building complete in October.

Prabhupāda: Whatever money you have got, you squander. I don't mind. I know that the kitchen, so much money is squandered, and that is given. Squander. And increase the period and squander. That I know. So don't bother me now with your money. But finish within that period. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is my only request. Otherwise, you are squandering money. Do it. Do it. But after all, do it in time. I'm not going to live for long. If possible, I'll see and...

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Every Sunday in Bombay hundreds of people come just to look at the building. It is so attractive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So kindly finish it. Take money and squander and finish it at a time.

Surabhi: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When I was in Jaipur I inquired from some people regarding your health, because I met Yaśodānandana Swami in Delhi, and he told me that you wanted to know from an astrologer about the situation. So I went to one man who was previously the advisor of the Mahārāja of Mansingh of Jaipur. One Life Member brought me to him. So I inquired.

Prabhupāda: What he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: What is he? Is he an astrologer or...

Surabhi: He's a paṅḍita. He uses numerology.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Numerology?

Surabhi: Numerology. By numbers. So he takes the name and then he... So he said... You want to know what he said? He told me that your disease is going to last altogether about two and a half years, two years and five months, of which eight months have passed.

Prabhupāda: Still I shall live?

Surabhi: He said that these three months now are most critical, but then, after three months, things will go better, but there will be ups and downs for about one and a half more years. Then he said after that it will be quite all right.

Prabhupāda: Three months?

Surabhi: It will be very...

Prabhupāda: Difficult.

Surabhi: Difficult. Yes. After three months, and he said that you will travel again then. But he said there is no absolute danger.

Prabhupāda: So. There is some sense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Everybody's saying the same thing like this.

Surabhi: And he would like a report of these nine days that are going on now, and then he wants to study again more to give more information. I was there on the fifth.

Prabhupāda: So give him a place to send to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: He works by numbers, not by astrology. He's not an astrologer.

Prabhupāda: Oh, so he knows my birth date and year.

Surabhi: Yes. He knows.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I gave him your birth date and time.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I mean now I gave him the time.

Surabhi: No, I had everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You told him?

Surabhi: Yes. I gave him the time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: He used those. Is that a science, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that numbers?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Surabhi: And before I asked the question, he told me what my question was. So he said, "You have two questions." I said, "No, I have one." He said, "No, you have two." Because my question was how long you would stay. So he said, "No, you want to know about health and about life span." So he gave both answers. He also said that the medicine... The best thing for you to take is milk of a black cow and juice, fruit juice. That is the best to take.

Prabhupāda: Fruit juice.

Surabhi: Yes. Lot of juice and milk of black cow. And then tulasī.

Prabhupāda: That is not difficult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That you're practically doing.

Prabhupāda: But he said "black cow."

Surabhi: He insisted on black cow.

Yaśomatīnandana: Śyāmala. You can arrange?

Surabhi: And if black is not... Bhagatjī is looking for a black cow. He's been looking for the last two weeks. And also tulasī, he said. That is very important to take.

Prabhupāda: So you have? You can give me.

Surabhi: Other things are not necessary, he said.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? No medicine?

Surabhi: No. No medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Good doctor. [laughter]

Prabhupāda: So meet him again and take particularly everything. So you can go.

Surabhi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Now I have to go. My train is leaving in about twenty minutes.

Prabhupāda: So you can go.

Surabhi: So I have to go to Mathurā. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You arrange. In this stage, don't tax me very much. Now I have authorized that will and everything. Follow that. You believe.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: We'll discuss it with Tamāla.

Prabhupāda: As far as..., don't tax me. And printing, don't mind for price. Do it quickly and nicely.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is... As quickly as possible. No manuscript should be left vacant. That I want. Here and there I have more money invested. Now you don't...

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: No. We're not leaving anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: There are four Gujarati books now also coming out.

Prabhupāda: Print.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes, we have already finalized.

Prabhupāda: Print.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Those Diwali cards, Śrīla Prabhupāda, which I showed you? They're selling very well.

Prabhupāda: That is business, earn money. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes. That's why I... Every day we are getting orders of more than thousand cards just in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: And now I've just written... I'm adding three more cards to the line to give people more variety. So...

Prabhupāda: Very good. So there you have got business. You have got money. Why you are miser? Earn money and spend money. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes, these will make about... I know this business.

Prabhupāda: I know this business. Earn money and spend money.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: I try to make it...

Prabhupāda: Throughout my whole life I have done this. Earn money and spend money. I am not miser.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: No. When you wanted something...

Prabhupāda: See money. Earn money and see money. I don't follow this policy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: When you wanted something, you'd spend anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Just like that land in Bombay, that house.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Whatever everyone wanted, "All right, take it." Finish. "I know I am giving you ten thousand more, fifteen thousand more." I didn't mind. "Take it and finish business tomorrow. Take it."

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That man was surprised that you didn't bargain with him.

Prabhupāda: No. I simply asked, "Whether you are going to finish it tomorrow? So I have agreed to pay." He said, "Yes, I can." What is that?

Dhanañjaya: This is a Deity of yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dhanañjaya: This is a Deity prepared here of you.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] So what shall I do? [laughter]

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: He just wanted to show it to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Nice.

Dhanañjaya: This is one for the temples.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: They like it very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Isn't it very small?

Dhanañjaya: Well, I showed this to all the GBC, and Balavanta took especially great interest.

Prabhupāda: It is silver?

Dhanañjaya: No. In brass.

Prabhupāda: Brass.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Can you silver-coat it?

Dhanañjaya: Yes, we can silver...

Prabhupāda: They have done nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It's very small.

Dhanañjaya: But this is also meant for householders.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It's nice for householders, but for big temples it's very...

Dhanañjaya: For small temples.

Prabhupāda: No...

Dhanañjaya: We'd also like to prepare one of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. [aside to other devotee:] You want to see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It looks good.

Prabhupāda: But looks good, that's good. [laughter]

Abhirāma: I know I would like to have one in my house in [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Playing the karatālas, preaching.

Prabhupāda: Nobody's going to see what is within. He looks good, that's good. [laughter] Just like they are making statue very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: In Los Angeles, Baradrāj.

Prabhupāda: So do nicely, quickly, and spend money. [laughter] That's all. I want to see things are done very nice. Never mind money is spent.

Dhanañjaya: I also looked into this weaving of silk Benares sārīs.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Dhanañjaya: You mentioned that we should encourage cottage industries here, and...

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dhanañjaya: Cottage industries.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: Cottage industries.

Prabhupāda: Ha.

Dhanañjaya: And so these handlooms are available, but along with the looms you must have expert weavers, handloomers.

Prabhupāda: So why you are bothering if you have no expert, you have to find out expert weaver? Why? We are not for industry. Why should we divert our attention unnecessarily?

Dhanañjaya: But you did mention previously that our ISKCON ladies, if they so desire, they can learn.

Prabhupāda: If they are idle, then you can give engagement. Otherwise don't bring engagements. If they are idle—there is no work—give them. Not that you bring engagement and then... We want to free from engagement, but if there is idle men, doing nothing, give them. Now that we have got so many workers. Simply unnecessarily, paid men are there for cutting vegetables. They have got so much... Means management is a rascal. Our men are idle, and they're bringing paid men to cut vegetables and paying two hundred rupees. This is management. First of all, whatever business is already there, engage them. Then bring further engagement. Now he has understood the situation. Do it very carefully. Don't make plan for squandering money. There are so many engagements. They're not doing anything. They're bringing one paid man to do the work. And you are finding out another engagement. Apply some brain.

Indian Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you always called Back to Godhead magazine the backbone of Hare Kṛṣṅa movement. You have many times said that the Back to Godhead magazine is the backbone of Hare Kṛṣṅa movement. So it is my ardent desire that the Hindi Back to Godhead should be made a regular monthly.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you make?

Indian Devotee (1): There are printing and distribution problems.

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: We had a big stock of our old issue. We had printed seventy thousand of that. There's only few thousand left, and we have a lot of...

Prabhupāda: If you have got distribution problem, then you...

Gopāla Kṛṣṅa: And we have a lot of small books which we have just printed. So I wanted the small books to be cleared out. Like in Germany and France also, they don't do Back to Godhead every month. They do it every few months so that they can get the books out.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. Every month, if we regularly publish, we get some postal custom. That's... If you every month publish some in certain date, you get very cheap rate for posting. That... All right.

Indian Devotee (1): Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [devotees offer obeisances]

Prabhupāda: So a good thing... [break] Very good boy. So Gaurasundara, if he joins there, it will be still more brilliant for both of them. Because you have got the talent. You are not to be taught. You can teach others how to make dolls. And profusely make this doll exhibition from Bhāgavata. Yes. There's no need of reading book. They will see and understand Bhāgavata. Everywhere, in every branch, you see how many tourists you attract. Do all these things. Kṛṣṅa has given all assistance: money, men, endeavor. Now utilize it properly. Just see how nicely they have made. Nobody will understand this is doll. As if actual photograph.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Actually, when I showed someone that photograph of Your Divine Grace in the Rādhā-Dāmodara room, you know, that doll exhibit, he said, "Who took this photo so many years ago?" I said, "No, this is not a photo. This is doll exhibit." This was a devotee of yours. They thought it was a photograph taken ten years ago or twelve years ago. They couldn't understand that it was a doll.

Prabhupāda: At least in London, in Hawaii, then... What is called?

Devotee: Washington?

Prabhupāda: No, the palace.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: France. Germany.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You have so many palaces we don't know which one you mean. Oh, Detroit.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That's a good place for it, Detroit. They're planning a big one in Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: Do it first. In Hawaii the Deities are made of paper combination?

Gurukṛpā: Now Baradrāj is making like this.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Gurukṛpā: He's already... He will be finished in two or three weeks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: These are very hard, aren't they? Can't break. It seems very...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is as good as marble.

Gurukṛpā: He's already started.

Prabhupāda: That's good. The old Deities, when the new Deities come, old Deities should be thrown in the ocean. That's it. And new Deities should be replaced with ceremony. There is no difficulty.

Gurukṛpā: I got now an Australian passport, so I want to stay in India for some time.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's good.

Gurukṛpā: Everything has been... There's not much for me to do there. Śrutakīrti is doing it.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. He is very intelligent.

Gurukṛpā: Yes. I just have to go sometimes and like that. There's not much for me to do, and I cannot do anything in Japan now, so I've come here to find some service.

Prabhupāda: Tell him. His name has been submitted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: For...

Devotee: Permanent residency.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: For residency? He doesn't need it. He says he's arranged an Australian passport.

Gurukṛpā: I have now... I am an Australian.

Prabhupāda: Oh. [laughs]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: He's changed his nationality.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Commonwealth.

Gurukṛpā: Yes, welcome to the Commonwealth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: All the men are like that?

Gurukṛpā: No, most. Bhānu has come with me now. He's here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: He's Canadian.

Gurukṛpā: He's Canadian. And I have some Australians and English boys with me.

Prabhupāda: So stay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Here's Bhānu, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh! [indistinct] I am very glad to see you. Keeping good health?

Bhānu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: You personally made Bhānu a devotee, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Took him with you.

Prabhupāda: He can worship Deity very good.

Upendra: In Hawaii he introduced very high standard of Deity worship, Bhānu did. [indistinct background conversation between Tamāla Kṛṣṅa and Gurukṛpā]

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Gurukṛpā brought his Deities, little Gaura-Nitāi. He's wondering where will be a good place to keep Them while he's here in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: The altar?

Gurukṛpā: No, that's not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It's difficult. He says...

Gurukṛpā: I'd like to bring Them in daily for you to have darśana since you cannot go to the Deity.

Prabhupāda: No, I go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Prabhupāda goes every day. Difficult to put 'em in here?

Prabhupāda: But very carefully it should be done.

Gurukṛpā: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: His Deities. You have a lot of jewels with you.

Gurukṛpā: I can't keep Them on the altar.

Prabhupāda: If you like, you can keep in private room also.

Gurukṛpā: Yes, that is better.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: They've arranged a very big room for the men, the biggest room here, so it's practically like a temple room in itself. It's where the gurukula used to be.

Gurukṛpā: It is better. We cook separate for Them.

Prabhupāda: Cook separate?

Gurukṛpā: Just for the Deity.

Prabhupāda: That is not very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: It's not a big thing here to cook. Prabhupāda just closed four kitchens down.

Prabhupāda: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam [Bg 9.26]. No cooking. Tulasī and jāla. You can offer little fruits, nuts, milk. No need of cooking. Take so much time. I want here no hired... But for the Deities and the devotees it is very difficult. The hired cook, they are most wretched people. Their association is bad. Make some arrangement so that you can avoid hired cook unless it is absolutely necessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's about twelve-twenty. Maybe you want to take your message now. [break] [Bengali conversation with Bhakti-caru] [end]