Room Conversation

Pradyumna:

tad-īkṣaṅotprema-rasāplutāśayā jātānurāgā gata-manyavo 'rbhakān uduhya dorbhiḥ parirabhya mūrdhani ghrāṅair avāpuḥ paramāṁ mudaṁ te [SB 10.13.33]

Prabhupāda: One line?

Pradyumna: Just read like this, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: One line.

Pradyumna: Ah, one line. Te [gopāḥ] tad-īkṣaṅotprema-rasāplutāśayāḥ [teṣāṁ sutānām īkṣaṅena udgataḥ yaḥ prema-rasaḥ tasmin āplutāḥ nimagnāḥ āśayāḥ yeṣāṁ te] jātānurāgāḥ [jātaḥ anurāgaḥ yeṣāṁ te] gata-manyavaḥ [gata-roṣāḥ] arbhakān [sutān] uduhya [utthāpya] dorbhiḥ [bāhubhiḥ] parirabhya [āliṅgya] mūrdhani [mastake] ghrāṅaiḥ paramāṁ mudam [atīva prītim] avāpuḥ [prāptāḥ].

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So, translation.

Pradyumna: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: So the word meaning you'll be able to translate into English?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then I can explain the translation.

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The... Kṛṣṅa has become everything. After Brahmā has stolen the original cowherds boys and cows and calves, Kṛṣṅa has expanded Himself. So on account of Kṛṣṅa's expansion, the cowherdsmen got a special attraction. First of all they were angry. The cowherdsmen were on the top of the hill. They did not like to come down. But on account of Kṛṣṅa, the boys were very, very attracted, and they immediately come down with special affection. Is it explained?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: It will help? Eh?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you can do that.

Pradyumna: Yes. We can do every verse like this, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Little by little, few verses at a time throughout the day, the Bhāgavata will be completed.

Pradyumna: We can do as much as you were doing before. We can do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall see how much we can... So on the head, I cannot hear properly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes. I was thinking he could sit here on the bed, and I can sit on the other side with the tape, or I can sit here also, and tape everything carefully. So should he move over now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: You need a flashlight, Pradyumna?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Yes. Here's a flashlight. Sit up on the bed.

Pradyumna:

tataḥ pravayaso gopās tokāśleṣa-sunirvṛtāḥ kṛcchrāc chanair apagatās tad-anusmṛty-udaśravaḥ [SB 10.13.34]

Tataḥ [anantaram] pravayasaḥ gopāḥ [vṛddhāḥ gopa-janāḥ].

Prabhupāda: Tataḥ [anantaram], you can translate? No, you can translate immediately, "Thereafter."

Pradyumna: Yes. Tataḥ—thereafter; pravayasaḥ [vṛddhāḥ gopa-janāḥ]—the elderly cowherdsmen? Vṛddhāḥ gopaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Tokāśleṣa-sunirvṛtāḥ [putrā-liṅganena sukhitāḥ santaḥ]—by embracing their sons.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Putra-liṅganena sukhitāḥ santaḥ—they became overjoyed, or happy.

Prabhupāda: In the beginning they were angry that the cows were being attracted by the calves, but when they came down from up the hill, they were themselves attracted by their sons, and therefore they embraced.

Pradyumna: Śanaiḥ [kramaśaḥ]—slowly; kṛcchrāt [kaṣṭena]—with difficulty. Kṛcchrāt [kaṣṭena]—with difficulty; apagatāḥ...

Prabhupāda: Śanaiḥ means "gradually."

Pradyumna: Gradually. They were old ones, old gopas. Apagatāḥ [āliṅganāghrāṅādi-vyāpārān-nivṛtāḥ].

Prabhupāda: These are the symptoms of affection, to embrace son and smell head.

Pradyumna: Tad anusmṛty udaśravaḥ [teṣāṁ sutānām anusmṛtyā anusmaraṅe udgacchanti aśrūṅi netra-jalāni yeṣāṁ te tādṛśāḥ jātāḥ]. By the... Teṣāṁ sutānām anusmṛtyā anusmaraṅe.

Prabhupāda: So translate.

Pradyumna: "By remembering their sons." Anantara vayaska gopa-gaṅa putrāliṅgane paramānanda lābha kariyā. Ati-kaṣṭe kramaśaḥ...

Prabhupāda: You can translate into English?

Pradyumna: "Thereafter, the elderly cowherdsmen," putrāliṅgane paramānanda lābha kariyā, "obtaining great bliss from embracing their sons..."

Prabhupāda: Feeling.

Pradyumna: "Attained great feeling." Ati-kaṣṭe kramaśaḥ āliṅganādi vyāpāra haite nivṛta hailena. "They ceased from the embracing of their sons gradually, with..." Ati-kaṣṭe?

Prabhupāda: With great difficulty.

Pradyumna: "...with great difficulty. With reluctance." Takhana putra-smṛti-vaśataḥ tāṅhādera netra-jala udgata haite lāgila. "And from remembering... On account of remembering their sons," putra-smṛti-vaśataḥ tāṅhādera netra-jala udgata, "tears began to..."

Prabhupāda: Roll down.

Pradyumna: "...roll down from their eyes."

Prabhupāda: In this way it can be done, and it will require a very good editing. Then it will be all right. And at the same time discussion of Bhāgavata will go on. Is that correct? What the editor said?

Pradyumna: What does the editor say? Is this all right?

Jayādvaita: Sure it's all right. This is good. This plan is good.

Prabhupāda: So let us do that. So each word you read very distinctly. It doesn't matter it takes time.

Jayādvaita: And Pradyumna, you can work ahead on this translation, so that it can be read...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayādvaita: Can you work ahead on translating, Pradyumna? So that can be done also, that as it's being read to you, the translation can already be done in advance by Pradyumna.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: That's good.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayādvaita: The translation of the verses can be done in advance, so that as the Sanskrit is being read to you, the meanings can also be done immediately.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Is that all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Should I... One thing I can do. Since Arundhatī will be typing, I can sit here with the dictaphone rather than tape recorder. Then she can do just as she always did, typing off the dictaphone.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Is that all right? And if you want, that way we can play back also very easily.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Okay. I'll sit here personally whenever you do this and take it on the dictaphone.

Prabhupāda: You all think, and as you..., I'll hear and do the needful. Anyway, it will be discussion on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: I think that Kṛṣṅadāsa Kavirāja was also in an invalid state when he completed Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He expressed throughout the book that sometimes it was very difficult, but on account of the Vaiṣṅavas' great desire to hear the glories of the Lord, he continued his work.

Ādi-keśava: And you compared yourself to him, also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Kavi. Your Godbrothers always called you Kavi.

Kīrtanānanda: Kavirāja, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Let us try. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt [Bg 2.40].

[In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.]

Hare Kṛṣṅa.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, read one after another. Slowly but surely. Next verse.

Pradyumna:

vrajasya rāmaḥ premardher vīkṣyautkaṅṭhyam anukṣaṅam mukta-staneṣv apatyeṣv apy ahetu-vid acintayat [SB 10.13.35]

Rāmaḥ [baladevaḥ]...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Mukta-staneṣu [vayasa ādhikyāt stanyapānād virateṣu] api apatyeṣu [vatseṣu] vrajasya [go-samūhasya] anukṣaṅam [nirantanam] premardheḥ [santati-sneha-samṛddheḥ] autkaṅṭhyam [ātiśayam] vīkṣya ahetuvit [tat-kāraṅam ajānan] acintayat [cintitavān]. Baladeva tat-kāle vayasādhikya-vaśataḥ stanya-pāna virata vatsa-gaṅera prati dhenu-gaṅera etādṛśa nirantara sneha-samṛddhira ādhikya-darśane tāhāra kāraṅa jānite nā pāriyā ei-rūpa cintā karite lāgilena.

Prabhupāda: The calves were grown up, and still, the mother wanted to feed them. So Balarāma was a little surprised. So He wanted to inquire what is the reason from Kṛṣṅa.

Pradyumna: Next verse?

Prabhupāda: It is explained?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The calves, they were beyond milking, so when the cows were so affectionate, He could not understand.

Prabhupāda: Viśvanātha explanation?

Pradyumna: Yes, a very big one, big explanation.

Prabhupāda: Read it. We shall try to...

Pradyumna: Premardher hetor autkaṅṭhyaṁ mukta-staneṣv api vatseṣu nava-prasūta-vatsatarīṅām api gavām ahetu-vit hetum ajānan acintayad iti.

Prabhupāda: You can translate?

Pradyumna: Yes. Premardher hetor autkaṅṭhyam, "Such enthusiasm on a cause of love, such affection," mukta-staneṣv api vatseṣu, "even among those vatsas who had given up milking... They were no longer milking them at their mother," nava-prasūta-vatsatarīṅām api gavām, "and seeing that enthusiasm," I think, "even among cows who had newly given birth.... They had given..." They had some older calves who had finished milking, and they had younger calves who had...

Prabhupāda: Yes, still...

Pradyumna: But they showed still same enthusiasm.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So Balarāma was surprised.

Pradyumna: Then there is a..., he raises some questions. Etāvat kāleṣu prati-dinam eva go-dohanādi samayeṣu nava-prasūtān api vatsān vihāya prācīnān eva vatsān stanaṁ pāyayantīḥ [etc. to abhūt].

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mothers were more anxious to feed the older calves, although the new calves were present, because the older calves were expansion of Kṛṣṅa. This was surprising.

Pradyumna: [Sanskrit—paśyato' pi to yoga-māyaiva]

Prabhupāda: No, just explain it. These were happening by the yogamāyā manipulation. It is not generally happening, but on account of yogamāyā, it was so happening. Two māyās are working under the direction of Kṛṣṅa: the mahāmāyā, this material world; and yogamāyā, the spiritual world. So this uncommon thing was happening on account of yogamāyā's influence.

Pradyumna: [Sanskrit—tatra to abhūt]

Prabhupāda: So on account of activity of yogamāyā, the day on which Brahmā stolen, and they could not understand how yogamāyā was working. Uncommon thing happening.

Pradyumna: [Sanskrit—kintu to nābhūt]

Prabhupāda: So yogamāyā was acting in such a way that even Balarāma could not understand.

Pradyumna: [Sanskrit—varṣa-paryantam to avasīyate] End.

Prabhupāda: So as yogamāyā gradually withdrew her action, then others could understand, especially Balarāma, and inquired from Kṛṣṅa. And next?

Pradyumna:

kim etad adbhutam iva vāsudeve 'khilātmani vrajasya sātmanas... [SB 10.13.36]

Prabhupāda: One thing, you can keep open my Tenth Canto, Kṛṣṅa.

Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṅa book, Tenth Canto.

Prabhupāda: That will help.

Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṅa book. Thirteenth or Fourteenth Chapter, Volume One. [indistinct background comments as they find book]

Pradyumna:

kim etad adbhutam iva vāsudeve 'khilātmani vrajasya sātmanas tokeṣv apūrvaṁ prema vardhat [SB 10.13.36]

[Sanskrit—sātmanaḥ synonyms to śrī-kṛṣṅe iva]

Prabhupāda: The affection was increasing not to māyā, but because Kṛṣṅa expanded Himself as everything. So their whole life was meant for Kṛṣṅa. So on account of Kṛṣṅa affection, the affection of the older calves were more than the new calves. What is written in the English Kṛṣṅa?

Jayādvaita: Kṛṣṅa? "One day when Kṛṣṅa, along with Balarāma, was maintaining the calves in the forest..."

Pradyumna: It's just up here. [Pradymuna points out where section begins]

Jayādvaita: "Balarāma was astonished to see all the residents of Vṛndāvana so affectionate for their own children..." Is that right? Yes, this is all right. "...exactly as they had been for Kṛṣṅa. Similarly, the cows had grown affectionate for their calves as much as for Kṛṣṅa. Balarāma therefore concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or by some powerful man."

Prabhupāda: Is it clear now? Balarāma was surprised to see the action of yogamāyā; therefore He inquired from Kṛṣṅa, "What is happening in this scene? What is that mystery?" Is it clear?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In this way go very slow, but the discussion may be complete. So? You can go on.

Pradyumna: The next verse?

keyaṁ vā kuta āyātā daivī vā nāry utāsurī prāyo māyāstu me bhartur nānyā me 'pi vimohinī [SB 10.13.37]

[Sanskrit—iyam to na bhavati]

Prabhupāda: Balarāma was surprised, "This māyā may be some rākṣasī-māyā. But how rākṣasī-māyā can influence upon Balarāma? That is not possible. Therefore it must be the māyā of Kṛṣṅa." Therefore He inquired. What is there in the English?

Jayādvaita: [reading from Kṛṣṅa book] "Balarāma inquired from Kṛṣṅa about the actual situation. He said, 'My dear Kṛṣṅa, in the beginning I thought that all these cows, calves and cowherd boys were either great sages and saintly persons or demigods. But at the present it appears that they are actually Your expansions. They are all You. You Yourself are playing as the calves and cows and boys.' "

Pradyumna: This is later

Jayādvaita: This is later? Before that, "Balarāma had concluded that the extraordinary show of affection was something mystical, either performed by the demigods or some powerful man. Otherwise how could this wonderful change take place? He concluded that this mystical change must have been caused by Kṛṣṅa, whom Balarāma considered His worshipable Personality of Godhead. He thought, 'It was arranged by Kṛṣṅa, and even I could not check its mystic power.' Thus Balarāma understood that all those boys and calves were only expansions of Kṛṣṅa."

Prabhupāda: Is it now clear?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Next verse. Iti sañcintya dāśārhaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Iti—thus; sañcintya—thinking.

Pradyumna: "Thinking thus," dāśārhaḥ. Dāśārhaḥ [rāmaḥ]—"Balarāma."

Prabhupāda: Dāśārhaḥ.

Pradyumna: Dāśārhaḥ. Vatsān sa-vayasān api, sarvān ācaṣṭa vaikuṅṭhaṁ cakṣuṣā vayunena saḥ. [Sanskrit—saḥ to sa-vayasān]

Prabhupāda: Jñāna-cakṣuṣā is...? Try to give English.

Pradyumna: Er, er, "Then Lord Balarāma, thinking in this way," iti sañcintya, vayunena cakṣuṣā, "with the eye of knowledge"?

Prabhupāda: Transcendental knowledge.

Pradyumna: "...with the eye of transcendental knowledge." Sarvān sa-vayasān [sahacarān] vatsān [gośāvakān] api vaikuṅṭham [śrī-kṛṣṅam eva] ācaṣṭa [apaśyat]: "He saw all those calves as Śrī Kṛṣṅa only." Vaikuṅṭhaṁ śrī-kṛṣṅam eva apaśyat: "He saw that all those calves were Kṛṣṅa."

Prabhupāda: You can clear my eyes with some hot water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: Get some hot water.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṅa: We're just getting some warm water, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Make it clear. [devotees play tape back for a few seconds]

Pradyumna: "Balarāma, after thinking in this way, He could see that all the calves were actually expansions of Śrī Kṛṣṅa."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Baladeva ei-rūpa cintā kariyā jñāna-cakṣu-dvārā dekhite pāilena ye samasta [etc. to pāiteche]

Prabhupāda: Can you translate?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do it.

Pradyumna: "Thinking in this way, He was able to see with the eye of transcendental knowledge that all these cows and calves were expansions in the form of Śrī Kṛṣṅa, these calves." [Sanskrit] "These calves, along with the cowherd boys," [Sanskrit] "were Śrī Kṛṣṅa, expansions of Śrī Kṛṣṅa."

Prabhupāda: Then?

Pradyumna: Then,

naite sureśā ṛṣayo na caite tvam eva bhāsīśa bhid-āśraye 'pi sarvaṁ pṛthak tvaṁ nigamāt kathaṁ vadety... [SB 10.13.39]

Prabhupāda: Try to...

Pradyumna: Translate as I...

Prabhupāda: Word to word.

Pradyumna: Yes, [he] īśa—O Lord; [he prabho kṛṣṅa]—O Lord Kṛṣṅa; ete sureśāḥ [gopālaka-rūpa-dharāḥ deva-śreṣṭhāḥ garuḍādayaḥ iti... to jnatam

Prabhupāda: Word to word. Why you go?

Pradyumna: He says, "All these lords of the demigods..." He says that "The cowherd boys are actually the best of the demigods in the form of cowherd boys." Ete sureśāḥ.

Prabhupāda: No. They were all expansion of Kṛṣṅa.

Pradyumna: Oh. [Sanskrit—iti to jñātam] "As was formerly understood by Me." He formerly understood that these were all like demigods.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, Baladeva could understand before asking.

Pradyumna: Na [idānīṁ tathā na paśyāmi]. "I do not see it now. Now I do not see it in the same way. I do not see in such a way now." Ete vā ṛṣayaḥ na: "These are not ṛṣis also." [break]

Jayādvaita: This Bhāgavatam commenting has attracted more men to come here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That's all.

Kīrtanānanda: Would you like a little water, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can chant Hare Kṛṣṅa little. [kīrtana] [end]