Śrīla Prabhupāda Speaks Out

"What Is This Civilization—Killing Our Mother?"

Here we conclude a conversation between His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and Professor John Mize. It took place in Los Angeles on June 23, 1975.

Professor Mize: And if the Lord has all qualities, does this mean He even has jealousy?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Everything.

Professor Mize: It's difficult to imagine Kṛṣṅa jealous.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Mize: What could He possibly envy or be jealous of?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: You can speak of whatever quality, whether anger or whatever you have got—God has got it in a bigger quantity and in a perfect quantity. That is the conception of God—without any . . . what is it called?

Professor Mize: Imperfection?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Imperfection, yes.

Professor Mize: I hope He doesn't have my ignorance in such a huge quantity.

Disciple: But ignorance is not a positive existence.

Professor Mize: Well, is anger or jealousy?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes anger acts. Unless you become angry, you cannot fight.

Disciple: In the Vedic literature there are so many stories of Kṛṣṅa's anger, all the way from His babyhood to His later life.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Disciple: Kṛṣṅa's activities are always for the good.

Professor Mize: Righteous anger.

Disciple: Yes, spiritual anger.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Everything has got its proper use. In the material condition we do not know that. Therefore, Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura has made a list: how to use your anger, your greediness—like that. He says, kamah kṛṣṅa-karmarpane: we are lusty for doing something for our sense gratification, but the same desire, the same propensity, can be utilized for serving Kṛṣṅa.

For instance, I am writing books—staying up at night, the whole night. So for an old man like me, it is tedious. But I am doing it for Kṛṣṅa. So similarly, another author may be writing the whole night to produce some sex literature. So the labor for producing sex literature and the labor for producing Bhāgavatam is the same. It may be the same ambition: "Let me become a big author. My name will be very popular." But one thing is being done for Kṛṣṅa; the other thing is being done for sense gratification.

So that propensity of becoming a reputed author, or the labor to do so—it is the same, but it is being utilized for different purposes. Similarly, you can take any other quality. For instance, Hanumān became angry at the demon Rāvaṅa. He set fire in his city. Destroyed the whole city. Hanumān showed his anger, but not for his personal sense gratification—he wanted to serve Lord Rāma. Rāma's consort, Sītā, had been stolen by Rāvaṅa, so there was an arrangement for fighting, and Hanumān set fire. To set fire in your home or your country is not good, but he did it for the satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra.

So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṅa. That is Kṛṣṅa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious. We can-not give up anything. But we are being trained up in how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṅa. That is Kṛṣṅa consciousness.

Disciple: Śrīla Prabhupāda has written a book on the various philosophers. Prabhupāda is discussing where their ideas connect with Kṛṣṅa consciousness and where their ideas fall short.

Professor Mize: I look forward to seeing it.

Disciple: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this book do you speak about Kant's philosophy? As you know, he's very popular.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, Kant is very popular. I was also a student of philosophy. In my student life, my professors were all Europeans. I was a student at Scottish Church's College, in Calcutta. So Dr. W. S. Urquhart was our professor for psychology and metaphysics. Later on, he became the vice-chancellor of the University of Calcutta. A very nice gentleman.

Disciple: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Professor Mize finds that he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa a little in the shower now. When he takes a shower, he chants a little.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: [Chuckles.] In Berkeley, during the early days of our movement, a reporter wrote, "After visiting the university and hearing this Hare Kṛṣṅa for just a few minutes, I came home chanting all the way—Hare Kṛṣṅa, Hare Kṛṣṅa." He gave this report.

Disciple: Many scholars have a hard time realizing that just by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, it is so nice and so easy.

Disciple: . . . that you get the highest philosophical realization—just by chanting Hare Kṛṣṅa.

Professor Mize: Your Divine Grace, thank you.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Take this nice prasāda.

Professor Mize: [Begins eating.] This is delicious.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now you can take. Kṛṣṅa has given us so many nice things. Why should we kill the poor animals? That's not good. Because there is no spiritual vision: samah sarvesu bhutesu—the sense that every other being is my equal, as a spirit soul, part and parcel of God. But now the average man is not a brāhmaṅa. He'll give the dog a bad name and hang it. "The animal has no soul." What is this—the animal has no soul?

Disciple: But, Prabhupāda, sometimes people argue that vegetarians are also killing the vegetables.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That's all right. The vegetables also have life. But we are not killing them. When you pluck a blossom, the bush is not killed. When you take a fruit, the tree is not killed. When you harvest grains, they have already died. Only then can you take the grains. There is no question of killing. But even if it were killing, it would not be as murderous as killing a cow.

Why does the state hang a man when he kills another man? The man can plead, "So many animals are being killed every day—if I kill one man, what is the wrong there?" The punishment is there because "You have killed a very important animal."

Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā we find krsi-go-raksya: the cow should be protected, because she is a very, very important animal. In fact, Lord Kṛṣṅa does not speak of other animals. Nor does He say "all animals." He says "cows," because the cow is so very important. She's supplying you milk, such an important food. She is your mother—and you are killing your mother? Is that your civilization? Killing your mother?

"My mother is old; my mother is no longer supplying milk. Kill." Is there any such sanction? Rather, our old mother should be given more protection. But what is this civilization—killing our mother? In the morning we require milk immediately, and our mother the cow is supplying. And when she cannot supply—"Kill her." What is this philosophy?

Disciple: Śrīla Prabhupāda, during a talk at a university, I was explaining this simple idea, and one man said, "This is just your sentiment. You just have some sentiment." So I asked him if he had a dog. And he said, "Yes." So I asked him, "When your dog becomes old, will you kill it?" And he said, "No. Why shall I kill it? It's a good dog."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In this civilization, the dog is good, the cow is bad. The dog is always creating nasty things, while the cow is so pure that it has been scientifically demonstrated that even her stool is pure and antiseptic—and yet she has to be killed.

So, learned scholars and philosophers should understand the importance of this movement and how it is beneficial. People are suffering for want of knowledge of the spirit soul. They are keeping themselves on the animal platform with their so-called education. Unless there is spiritual understanding, people's so-called education has no value. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna manorathenasati dhavato bahih: they will remain on the mental platform, and since their mind is now materially contaminated, they will remain on the material platform. They cannot make any advancement. One has to come to the spiritual platform. That is required.

Disciple: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the symptom that you have reached the spiritual platform?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. Prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu: you are joyful, without hankering or lamentation, and you see, "All other living beings are spirit souls, equal to me." These persons who are on the mental platform—they will argue, "The animal has no soul."